PIA to Acquire up to Three Wide-body Aircraft on Dry Lease

[Sherry3002]

Agree that an A320 to far east Asia would be profitable with iPads for IFE. Also doubt LHR is loss making. Come on! I thought it was one of the most profitable routes 0f PIA. My grandfather was GM of Scandinavia back in the 80-90's and said it was a very profitable area! MXP seems to be doing well, but Paris has quite low loads, I saw this firsthand.

As for replacing 777, that would be a loss making option and would cost billions. Firstly, ordering new 787's, then phasing out the now almost 10 777s we have, then crew training, plus areas like BHX and MAN NEED the 777. They are always 100% full. Perhaps like u said changing the order of 5 77W's would work.

[dreamliner99]

They should get rid of 772 and replace them with A330 or 787.

I would have preferred PIA to be a high quality airline with smaller aircraft composed of just had three types like A332, A320 and ATR42, in large numbers which would allow them to offer more flights? the lflagship aircraft being A332 could serve just about every domestic big city provided there was demand.

Agree with you, just a shame management didn't have the forsifht to do this. Although, I do hope they manage to convert the orders for 5 777's into an order for 787's.

Agree that an A320 to far east Asia would be profitable with iPads for IFE. Also doubt LHR is loss making. Come on! I thought it was one of the most profitable routes 0f PIA. My grandfather was GM of Scandinavia back in the 80-90's and said it was a very profitable area! MXP seems to be doing well, but Paris has quite low loads, I saw this firsthand.

As for replacing 777, that would be a loss making option and would cost billions. Firstly, ordering new 787's, then phasing out the now almost 10 777s we have, then crew training, plus areas like BHX and MAN NEED the 777. They are always 100% full. Perhaps like u said changing the order of 5 77W's would work.

I would be surprised if management do not consider sending A320's into Southern Asia. I've first handily seen that flights to and from LHR are packed, although, are PIA unable to increase frequency do to LHR being at full capacity? Could it be worth cutting out Paris and instead adding maybe Islamabad-Barcelona-Milan-Islamabad. That doesn't surprise me my uncle has stationed in Oslo with PIA and he mentioned that it was doing very well.

I would never recommended PIA phasing out 777's. They just need to utilise them properly. 777's on UK and North American routes is a must. However, to expand into central Europe and maintain destinations they need an aircraft that is smaller than 777's to make the route worthwhile and profitable.

[Sherry3002]

Don't know about turning Paris off, but am sure a Barcelona to Milan to Islamabad route would work wonders. I think Barcelona did well. I firmly believe Frankfurt and Amsterdam are prosperous routes. Making a comeback in Turkey would be impossible. Agree that smaller aircraft than a 777 are needed, ie- 787 or maybe a 767.

[dreamliner99]

They should get rid of 772 and replace them with A330 or 787.

I would have preferred PIA to be a high quality airline with smaller aircraft composed of just had three types like A332, A320 and ATR42, in large numbers which would allow them to offer more flights? the lflagship aircraft being A332 could serve just about every domestic big city provided there was demand.

Agree with you, just a shame management didn't have the forsifht to do this. Although, I do hope they manage to convert the orders for 5 777's into an order for 787's.

Agree that an A320 to far east Asia would be profitable with iPads for IFE. Also doubt LHR is loss making. Come on! I thought it was one of the most profitable routes 0f PIA. My grandfather was GM of Scandinavia back in the 80-90's and said it was a very profitable area! MXP seems to be doing well, but Paris has quite low loads, I saw this firsthand.

As for replacing 777, that would be a loss making option and would cost billions. Firstly, ordering new 787's, then phasing out the now almost 10 777s we have, then crew training, plus areas like BHX and MAN NEED the 777. They are always 100% full. Perhaps like u said changing the order of 5 77W's would work.

I would be surprised if management do not consider sending A320's into Southern Asia. I've first handily seen that flights to and from LHR are packed, although, are PIA unable to increase frequency do to LHR being at full capacity? Could it be worth cutting out Paris and instead adding maybe Islamabad-Barcelona-Milan-Islamabad. That doesn't surprise me my uncle has stationed in Oslo with PIA and he mentioned that it was doing very well.

I would never recommended PIA phasing out 777's. They just need to utilise them properly. 777's on UK and North American routes is a must. However, to expand into central Europe and maintain destinations they need an aircraft that is smaller than 777's to make the route worthwhile and profitable.

Don't know about turning Paris off, but am sure a Barcelona to Milan to Islamabad route would work wonders. I think Barcelona did well. I firmly believe Frankfurt and Amsterdam are prosperous routes. Making a comeback in Turkey would be impossible. Agree that smaller aircraft than a 777 are needed, ie- 787 or maybe a 767.

It's really dependant on how the route is performing. Maybe adding Barcelona and Rome together. And Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore to Amsterdam and Frankfurt with a b777. With the competition from Istanbul airlines, Turkey would be impossible to PIA to return to. I wouldn't recommend going for a 767, its out dated and inefficient, if management are serious about moving forward they have to give fuel efficiency a priority.

[Sherry3002]

They should get rid of 772 and replace them with A330 or 787.

I would have preferred PIA to be a high quality airline with smaller aircraft composed of just had three types like A332, A320 and ATR42, in large numbers which would allow them to offer more flights? the lflagship aircraft being A332 could serve just about every domestic big city provided there was demand.

Agree with you, just a shame management didn't have the forsifht to do this. Although, I do hope they manage to convert the orders for 5 777's into an order for 787's.

Agree that an A320 to far east Asia would be profitable with iPads for IFE. Also doubt LHR is loss making. Come on! I thought it was one of the most profitable routes 0f PIA. My grandfather was GM of Scandinavia back in the 80-90's and said it was a very profitable area! MXP seems to be doing well, but Paris has quite low loads, I saw this firsthand.

As for replacing 777, that would be a loss making option and would cost billions. Firstly, ordering new 787's, then phasing out the now almost 10 777s we have, then crew training, plus areas like BHX and MAN NEED the 777. They are always 100% full. Perhaps like u said changing the order of 5 77W's would work.

I would be surprised if management do not consider sending A320's into Southern Asia. I've first handily seen that flights to and from LHR are packed, although, are PIA unable to increase frequency do to LHR being at full capacity? Could it be worth cutting out Paris and instead adding maybe Islamabad-Barcelona-Milan-Islamabad. That doesn't surprise me my uncle has stationed in Oslo with PIA and he mentioned that it was doing very well.

I would never recommended PIA phasing out 777's. They just need to utilise them properly. 777's on UK and North American routes is a must. However, to expand into central Europe and maintain destinations they need an aircraft that is smaller than 777's to make the route worthwhile and profitable.

Don't know about turning Paris off, but am sure a Barcelona to Milan to Islamabad route would work wonders. I think Barcelona did well. I firmly believe Frankfurt and Amsterdam are prosperous routes. Making a comeback in Turkey would be impossible. Agree that smaller aircraft than a 777 are needed, ie- 787 or maybe a 767.

It's really dependant on how the route is performing. Maybe adding Barcelona and Rome together. And Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore to Amsterdam and Frankfurt with a b777. With the competition from Istanbul airlines, Turkey would be impossible to PIA to return to. I wouldn't recommend going for a 767, its out dated and inefficient, if management are serious about moving forward they have to give fuel efficiency a priority.

I am surprised at Pakistani presence in Italy. Definitely need a Pak - Germany routes are needed. Pak - Amsterdam are also important. TK has conquered Turkey, EK has conquered Dubai, EY, QR and TG Abu Dhabi, Doha and Thailand.

[dreamliner99]

They should get rid of 772 and replace them with A330 or 787.

I would have preferred PIA to be a high quality airline with smaller aircraft composed of just had three types like A332, A320 and ATR42, in large numbers which would allow them to offer more flights? the lflagship aircraft being A332 could serve just about every domestic big city provided there was demand.

Agree with you, just a shame management didn't have the forsifht to do this. Although, I do hope they manage to convert the orders for 5 777's into an order for 787's.

Agree that an A320 to far east Asia would be profitable with iPads for IFE. Also doubt LHR is loss making. Come on! I thought it was one of the most profitable routes 0f PIA. My grandfather was GM of Scandinavia back in the 80-90's and said it was a very profitable area! MXP seems to be doing well, but Paris has quite low loads, I saw this firsthand.

As for replacing 777, that would be a loss making option and would cost billions. Firstly, ordering new 787's, then phasing out the now almost 10 777s we have, then crew training, plus areas like BHX and MAN NEED the 777. They are always 100% full. Perhaps like u said changing the order of 5 77W's would work.

I would be surprised if management do not consider sending A320's into Southern Asia. I've first handily seen that flights to and from LHR are packed, although, are PIA unable to increase frequency do to LHR being at full capacity? Could it be worth cutting out Paris and instead adding maybe Islamabad-Barcelona-Milan-Islamabad. That doesn't surprise me my uncle has stationed in Oslo with PIA and he mentioned that it was doing very well.

I would never recommended PIA phasing out 777's. They just need to utilise them properly. 777's on UK and North American routes is a must. However, to expand into central Europe and maintain destinations they need an aircraft that is smaller than 777's to make the route worthwhile and profitable.

Don't know about turning Paris off, but am sure a Barcelona to Milan to Islamabad route would work wonders. I think Barcelona did well. I firmly believe Frankfurt and Amsterdam are prosperous routes. Making a comeback in Turkey would be impossible. Agree that smaller aircraft than a 777 are needed, ie- 787 or maybe a 767.

It's really dependant on how the route is performing. Maybe adding Barcelona and Rome together. And Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore to Amsterdam and Frankfurt with a b777. With the competition from Istanbul airlines, Turkey would be impossible to PIA to return to. I wouldn't recommend going for a 767, its out dated and inefficient, if management are serious about moving forward they have to give fuel efficiency a priority.

I am surprised at Pakistani presence in Italy. Definitely need a Pak - Germany routes are needed. Pak - Amsterdam are also important. TK has conquered Turkey, EK has conquered Dubai, EY, QR and TG Abu Dhabi, Doha and Thailand.

I've visited both Rome and Barcelona a few times and the Pakistani presence there is definitely worth restarting the routes. With the addition of 777's maybe PIA could fly direct flights to Germany and Frankfurt without the connection. Definitely will be profitable and worthwhile.

Unless PIA improves dramatically improved TK will conquer Pakistan. Although Pakistan has been flooded with flights to Dubai by EK I still think Dubai is a very profitably route for PIA.

[Sherry3002]

Most people flying EK only fly to connect and go onwards to other countries. Since TK offers the same thing, and flies to more destinations than EK, plus also stops over closer to Europe, people fly TK...PIA has to up their game. A direct flight to Scandinavia and Italy and Spain is needed.

[dreamliner99]

They should get rid of 772 and replace them with A330 or 787.

I would have preferred PIA to be a high quality airline with smaller aircraft composed of just had three types like A332, A320 and ATR42, in large numbers which would allow them to offer more flights? the lflagship aircraft being A332 could serve just about every domestic big city provided there was demand.

Agree with you, just a shame management didn't have the forsifht to do this. Although, I do hope they manage to convert the orders for 5 777's into an order for 787's.

Agree that an A320 to far east Asia would be profitable with iPads for IFE. Also doubt LHR is loss making. Come on! I thought it was one of the most profitable routes 0f PIA. My grandfather was GM of Scandinavia back in the 80-90's and said it was a very profitable area! MXP seems to be doing well, but Paris has quite low loads, I saw this firsthand.

As for replacing 777, that would be a loss making option and would cost billions. Firstly, ordering new 787's, then phasing out the now almost 10 777s we have, then crew training, plus areas like BHX and MAN NEED the 777. They are always 100% full. Perhaps like u said changing the order of 5 77W's would work.

I would be surprised if management do not consider sending A320's into Southern Asia. I've first handily seen that flights to and from LHR are packed, although, are PIA unable to increase frequency do to LHR being at full capacity? Could it be worth cutting out Paris and instead adding maybe Islamabad-Barcelona-Milan-Islamabad. That doesn't surprise me my uncle has stationed in Oslo with PIA and he mentioned that it was doing very well.

I would never recommended PIA phasing out 777's. They just need to utilise them properly. 777's on UK and North American routes is a must. However, to expand into central Europe and maintain destinations they need an aircraft that is smaller than 777's to make the route worthwhile and profitable.

Don't know about turning Paris off, but am sure a Barcelona to Milan to Islamabad route would work wonders. I think Barcelona did well. I firmly believe Frankfurt and Amsterdam are prosperous routes. Making a comeback in Turkey would be impossible. Agree that smaller aircraft than a 777 are needed, ie- 787 or maybe a 767.

It's really dependant on how the route is performing. Maybe adding Barcelona and Rome together. And Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore to Amsterdam and Frankfurt with a b777. With the competition from Istanbul airlines, Turkey would be impossible to PIA to return to. I wouldn't recommend going for a 767, its out dated and inefficient, if management are serious about moving forward they have to give fuel efficiency a priority.

I am surprised at Pakistani presence in Italy. Definitely need a Pak - Germany routes are needed. Pak - Amsterdam are also important. TK has conquered Turkey, EK has conquered Dubai, EY, QR and TG Abu Dhabi, Doha and Thailand.

I've visited both Rome and Barcelona a few times and the Pakistani presence there is definitely worth restarting the routes. With the addition of 777's maybe PIA could fly direct flights to Germany and Frankfurt without the connection. Definitely will be profitable and worthwhile.

Unless PIA improves dramatically improved TK will conquer Pakistan. Although Pakistan has been flooded with flights to Dubai by EK I still think Dubai is a very profitably route for PIA.

Most people flying EK only fly to connect and go onwards to other countries. Since TK offers the same thing, and flies to more destinations than EK, plus also stops over closer to Europe, people fly TK...PIA has to up their game. A direct flight to Scandinavia and Italy and Spain is needed.

PIA has the advantage of direct flights, they can still regain lost pax if they act smart. Really hope these 777's are used to facilitate new routes in Europe.

[Sherry3002]

They should get rid of 772 and replace them with A330 or 787.

I would have preferred PIA to be a high quality airline with smaller aircraft composed of just had three types like A332, A320 and ATR42, in large numbers which would allow them to offer more flights? the lflagship aircraft being A332 could serve just about every domestic big city provided there was demand.

Agree with you, just a shame management didn't have the forsifht to do this. Although, I do hope they manage to convert the orders for 5 777's into an order for 787's.

Agree that an A320 to far east Asia would be profitable with iPads for IFE. Also doubt LHR is loss making. Come on! I thought it was one of the most profitable routes 0f PIA. My grandfather was GM of Scandinavia back in the 80-90's and said it was a very profitable area! MXP seems to be doing well, but Paris has quite low loads, I saw this firsthand.

As for replacing 777, that would be a loss making option and would cost billions. Firstly, ordering new 787's, then phasing out the now almost 10 777s we have, then crew training, plus areas like BHX and MAN NEED the 777. They are always 100% full. Perhaps like u said changing the order of 5 77W's would work.

I would be surprised if management do not consider sending A320's into Southern Asia. I've first handily seen that flights to and from LHR are packed, although, are PIA unable to increase frequency do to LHR being at full capacity? Could it be worth cutting out Paris and instead adding maybe Islamabad-Barcelona-Milan-Islamabad. That doesn't surprise me my uncle has stationed in Oslo with PIA and he mentioned that it was doing very well.

I would never recommended PIA phasing out 777's. They just need to utilise them properly. 777's on UK and North American routes is a must. However, to expand into central Europe and maintain destinations they need an aircraft that is smaller than 777's to make the route worthwhile and profitable.

Don't know about turning Paris off, but am sure a Barcelona to Milan to Islamabad route would work wonders. I think Barcelona did well. I firmly believe Frankfurt and Amsterdam are prosperous routes. Making a comeback in Turkey would be impossible. Agree that smaller aircraft than a 777 are needed, ie- 787 or maybe a 767.

It's really dependant on how the route is performing. Maybe adding Barcelona and Rome together. And Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore to Amsterdam and Frankfurt with a b777. With the competition from Istanbul airlines, Turkey would be impossible to PIA to return to. I wouldn't recommend going for a 767, its out dated and inefficient, if management are serious about moving forward they have to give fuel efficiency a priority.

I am surprised at Pakistani presence in Italy. Definitely need a Pak - Germany routes are needed. Pak - Amsterdam are also important. TK has conquered Turkey, EK has conquered Dubai, EY, QR and TG Abu Dhabi, Doha and Thailand.

I've visited both Rome and Barcelona a few times and the Pakistani presence there is definitely worth restarting the routes. With the addition of 777's maybe PIA could fly direct flights to Germany and Frankfurt without the connection. Definitely will be profitable and worthwhile.

Unless PIA improves dramatically improved TK will conquer Pakistan. Although Pakistan has been flooded with flights to Dubai by EK I still think Dubai is a very profitably route for PIA.

Most people flying EK only fly to connect and go onwards to other countries. Since TK offers the same thing, and flies to more destinations than EK, plus also stops over closer to Europe, people fly TK...PIA has to up their game. A direct flight to Scandinavia and Italy and Spain is needed.

PIA has the advantage of direct flights, they can still regain lost pax if they act smart. Really hope these 777's are used to facilitate new routes in Europe.

True. People prefer direct flights. We need cabin refurbishment, new crew (though I am fine with the current batch), better service, etc. Hope to see new European routes, and also to see 772's on China routes, to compete with NL, CZ and Air China. Hope airBlue doesn't decide to launch China as well

[Pakistan-1]

Little bit off topic
But Could the CAA take some actions against the ME6 to protect the Pakistani Airline Industry .
The FAA does stuff like that why can't the CAA do something similar?
Something like limiting the daily flights per airport by each foregn airline to 3 flight per airline per day or even less .

[Sherry3002]

PIA should get 787s to start some Long haul routs that have too small of a demand to allow the use of the 777s 5 to 7 aircraft should be enough for this purpose

787-8's would also help boost the image of PIA, bring in profit, be more eco-friendly and less fuel guzzling and could even be deployed once and a while on domestic routes.

[Sherry3002]

Little bit off topic
But Could the CAA take some actions against the ME6 to protect the Pakistani Airline Industry .
The FAA does stuff like that why can't the CAA do something similar?
Something like limiting the daily flights per airport by each foregn airline to 3 flight per airline per day or even less .

Currently, the big 3 US airlines are all fighting the ME3, and American FAA is helping them out. Lufthansa and BA have also complained that ME6 get unfair benefits, which the European Air Travel Authority? is looking into. The CAA with their open-skies policy has literally snatched away Pakistani Airlines birthright. By allowing the ME6 to operate 2+ flights a day to a single city, in total more than 12 flights are by the ME6 to just ISB, talk about LHE or KHI. Very unfair, as this doesn't give NL, PA or PIA a chance to expand. I am all for a 2 flight a day scenario, and want to see how our airlines stack up when given the chance. Competition is good, but this is ridiculous.

[dreamliner99]

PIA has recently tweeted about the seats again so hopefully it's very soon. I agree that PIA crew do not help the cause, most of them are moody and think they are doing passengers favours by just doing basics that they can't even do right.

I've always wondered why they CAA did what they did, I understand that the open sky policy is too attract more airlines into Pakistan but the CAA have literally sold off any chance of PIA being competitive again. I believe that because of PIA being privatised the CAA are literally just interested in lining their own pockets and don't have any intention of protecting the national carrier.

[Sherry3002]

PIA has recently tweeted about the seats again so hopefully it's very soon. I agree that PIA crew do not help the cause, most of them are moody and think they are doing passengers favours by just doing basics that they can't even do right.

I've always wondered why they CAA did what they did, I understand that the open sky policy is too attract more airlines into Pakistan but the CAA have literally sold off any chance of PIA being competitive again. I believe that because of PIA being privatised the CAA are literally just interested in lining their own pockets and don't have any intention of protecting the national carrier.

I find we have more and more in-common as this discussion progresses. The CAA hoped to attract BA, etc. but instead the ME6 used this unfairly and now this is the end result.

[dreamliner99]

PIA has recently tweeted about the seats again so hopefully it's very soon. I agree that PIA crew do not help the cause, most of them are moody and think they are doing passengers favours by just doing basics that they can't even do right.

I've always wondered why they CAA did what they did, I understand that the open sky policy is too attract more airlines into Pakistan but the CAA have literally sold off any chance of PIA being competitive again. I believe that because of PIA being privatised the CAA are literally just interested in lining their own pockets and don't have any intention of protecting the national carrier.

I find we have more and more in-common as this discussion progresses. The CAA hoped to attract BA, etc. but instead the ME6 used this unfairly and now this is the end result.

Yes I have caught on haha. It's sad to say but I think it will be decades before any big airline like BA will come to Pakistan again.