Emergency landing of PK770 at Milan Airport

Hikmah · Post by **Hikmah** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:50 am

Raihan, the hail can and can't be captured by onboard weather radar.

Here's a picture I got from google:

The weather radar transmits a cone-shaped signal ahead of the aircraft which can be moved up or down a certain number of degrees by the pilots as they wish (they might use this function in the climb or descent). Usually the weather radar is set straight ahead of the aircraft, and so should you encounter any weather ahead you would get a clear reading on the weather radar display.

However, sometimes thunderstorms can develop a long protruding tip at the top which goes on for many miles (known as an Anvil). Hail can fall from this tip. If the aircraft was about to fly underneath this tip at the time or near it (as the hail can be 'chucked' out many miles as other forum members have said) the weather radar would have struggle to pick it up as the weather radar works on picking up percipitation from clouds. Encountering just the hail (ie the hail not being imbedded within the thunderstorm/cloud) would give a very weak or no read back at all.

Does that make sense?

raihans · Post by **raihans** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:56 am

^ thank you Hikmah for the detailed information.

In case of BHX, we may assume that hail wasn't captured on radar? As I think any PIC will not deliberately head towards, if received hail warning on radar...

Hikmah · Post by **Hikmah** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:00 am

My pleasure Raihan.

zerbaer · Post by **zerbaer** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:07 pm

Some of the information that is filtering out isn't heartening. It is being said that ATC repeatedly warned PK of severe weather in their path!

Amaad Lone · Post by **Amaad Lone** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:24 pm

Are the captain and first officer still on active duty, or have they been grounded pending investigation results??

Huraiz · Post by **Huraiz** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:24 pm

I donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t know technical details about this incident but u can tell that there has been a cover up in this case.MD PIA rejected calls for an inquiry.WHY??
There should be an inquiry to figure out whose was at fault. If pilots made error then they should be held accountable and if it was ATC's mistake then complaint procedures should be folowed.Or it could just be an accident but we'll never know without a proper public inquiry.
I think passengers of that plane and rest of PIA customers do deserve an explanation.

Moin · Post by **Moin** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:27 pm

If the captain of that flight turns out to be a close friend of the MD, you might as well forget the chances of any enquiry taking place.

Its possible that this a/c will soon be ferried to Seattle for repairs.

chevron · Post by **chevron** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:06 am

According to the Geo News channel yesterday, Capt (I'm not going to put his name here as requested by forum Admin) has been grounded for the time being by the CAA. This could only mean that an inquiry is going on.

Abbas Ali · Post by **Abbas Ali** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:18 am

If Pakistani CAA is doing investigation then one thing is clear that we will never be able to find out how this incident happened and whether it was avoidable or not. That's because unlike western countries where aviation authorities release aviation accident reports for general public viewing, Pakistan's CAA, unfortunately, does not release such reports for public viewing.

Abbas

zerbaer · Post by **zerbaer** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:51 am

Italian Aviation authorities certainly have details of what transpired & that should be able to take the mystery out of it - Just like the UK AAIB findings about PK B777 wheels of fire incidents at Manchester. Specific weather data records from surface radars for Milan at that time must already be available. As for the details of damage sustained by the aircraft, that should be available from Boeing inspection reports to PIA Engg. & Maint. & the work scope they develop to restore the airframe. Flight Ops, surely must be in the loop of communications. The pilots report must also be available with PIA Insurance who filed the claim/s. CAA isn't the info. source for any of the essential elements.

raihans · Post by **raihans** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:39 am

chevron wrote:According to the Geo News channel yesterday, Capt (I'm not going to put his name here as requested by forum Admin) has been grounded for the time being by the CAA. This could only mean that an inquiry is going on.

chevron, please note the details of the crew names mentioned under report entitled as PIA Aircraft Damaged While Landing In Italy by Saad Hasan and posted by site admin on Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:52 am so no need to hide out further

It was being flown by Capt Ahsan ur Rahman and First Officer Khalid Azmat. This flight was being operated with multiple crew comprising three pilots, because of the extended flight time. According to PIA, Capt Ahsan is a highly experienced pilot with 21,645 hours of total flying experience, whereas First officer Khalid has 8,779 hours of experience.

Abbas Ali · Post by **Abbas Ali** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:31 am

^ As I said here, in such cases posting crew names should be avoided until airline or investigation authorities release this info to media and general public. According to Saad Hasan's news report for Pakistan's leading English daily 'The News' that I posted here, crew names with details of flight hours logged by them has been released by PIA for media.

The discussion should be focussed on how and why this incident happened and it's perfectly alright to discuss pilot error or air traffic controller error or aircraft technical problem in aviation incidents. But, the crew whose names have been mentioned in news report should not be targetted with bad or humiliating remarks.

Abbas

Hikmah · Post by **Hikmah** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:03 pm

I take it the FO has been suspended too pending the investigation? It would seem unfair to only suspend the Captain.

Just as some info, it's absolutely normal to suspend the flight crew on full pay after such an incident, so we shouldn't read too much into this.

raihans · Post by **raihans** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:27 pm

^ I agree with you Abbas on the point, same was in my mind that revealing the crew names engaged in any sort of accident should not be targetted in any way during the discussion.

As i mentioned earlier that not any PIC will deliberately perform in such way to risk the pax and the a/c. For the said incident I would like to recall the R.F. statement with which my opinion is that both pilots performed well as might be they were not having any option, continued for approach and landed safely when the visibility was insufficient due to damaged windshields.

however once inadvertently if entered a CB, the best course of action is continue straight ahead maintaining wings level and should break out, turning is not the best option.

umar744 · Post by **umar744** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:48 pm

PIA APBHX lucky safely landed no crash because last time other airline have been crashed during hailstorm
1.TAROM Romonia A310 after took off from Budespet to hit HAILSTORM then crashed into ground all died
2. Turkish Airline B737400 crashed during hailstorm all died
3.Northwest airline 720B hit hailstorm crashed all died
Hailstorm most dangerous in world
APBHX survived hit by hailstorm and it luck no crash
It cannot see radar or hailstorm
How can pilot find hailstorm
How can ATC find hailstorm
In Italy radar are very POOR
God know it
Good luck to BHX