PIA to Dry Lease Narrow-body and Turboprop Aircraft

[Sahil Ali]

PIA 7TH A320 AP-BLS

[Abbas Ali]

Photo on following link shows Airbus A320-214 registration OK-MEJ at Prague Airport on June 4 when it was prepared for ferry flight to Ostrava to get painted all-white.

http://www.planes.cz/en/photo/1208531/a ... e-prg-lkpr

This A320 is expected to join PIA as AP-BLT.

Abbas

[imiakhtar]

Yes it was just rough estimate.

And what about the cost of fuel? $2.50-3.00/USG.

An A320 burns 2400-2600kg/hour or 740USG.

And what about staffing costs? Pilots, cabin crew, mechanics, cleaners, ground support staff, admin etc

And what about maintenance costs and other consumables like oil and spare parts?

Your 100k estimate for a C check is way off. An a320 needs 8 C checks in its first base maintenance cycle which cost $4.5-$5m. If we assume PIA maintenance costs are at the lower end, $4.5m/8=$562,000 per C check.

The costs I give above don't include engine maintenance costs which probably amount to $200/flight hour for a CFM56.

And what about airport and navigation (airspace) charges?

You get the idea?

[boeing787]

Yes it was just rough estimate.

And what about the cost of fuel? $2.50-3.00/USG.

An A320 burns 2400-2600kg/hour or 740USG.

And what about staffing costs? Pilots, cabin crew, mechanics, cleaners, ground support staff, admin etc

And what about maintenance costs and other consumables like oil and spare parts?

Your 100k estimate for a C check is way off. An a320 needs 8 C checks in its first base maintenance cycle which cost $4.5-$5m. If we assume PIA maintenance costs are at the lower end, $4.5m/8=$562,000 per C check.

The costs I give above don't include engine maintenance costs which probably amount to $200/flight hour for a CFM56.

And what about airport and navigation (airspace) charges?

You get the idea?

In that case PIA should never dry lease planes. I doubt there is a c check every month. And I've already mentioned I don't know many things about planes, but the basic point is, an a320 can make money if management decides it's going to make it happen. A good way for calculation will be to look at entire years of revenue and entire years of cost, but I'm no expert. What I do know if PIA can earn money. There are still many routes available that can be exclusive to PIA. As Abbas said, PIA didn't care much about Quetta but if management did, they could be doing a320 Quetta to Dubai everyday on a320, but they just don't care and now G3 will serve this airport. If PIA was serving, they could've said to govt that don't give this route to G3 and let us continue serving it, we will double flight etc.

We already have plenty of employees which I already mentioned.

[CoyBoy]

PIA international operations from Quetta were loss making socio-political type, they had routes to Kandahar, Mashhad, Zahedan, Dubai and Sharjah all during the past few years,flights might be going full but were not feasible, maybe the new open skies will allow PIA, Shaheen and Airblue to fly UET-DXB and SHJ too in a better way.

UET also had services by Iran Aseman and Ariana for a short while.

[imiakhtar]

In that case PIA should never dry lease planes.

The costs I've listed above are relevant to any A320 fleet, regardless of whether the aircraft is leased or owned.

I doubt there is a c check every month.

A320 c checks occur every 15-20 months. You have smaller A checks in between.

There are still many routes available that can be exclusive to PIA. As Abbas said, PIA didn't care much about Quetta but if management did, they could be doing a320 Quetta to Dubai everyday on a320, but they just don't car

As Covboy mentions, PIA could probably fly from Quetta to most Middle-East capitals/major cities with a full plane.

HOWEVER, they would still be making a loss as PIA's cost base is high and these routes you suggest are low yield.

[boeing787]

In that case PIA should never dry lease planes.

The costs I've listed above are relevant to any A320 fleet, regardless of whether the aircraft is leased or owned.

I doubt there is a c check every month.

A320 c checks occur every 15-20 months. You have smaller A checks in between.

There are still many routes available that can be exclusive to PIA. As Abbas said, PIA didn't care much about Quetta but if management did, they could be doing a320 Quetta to Dubai everyday on a320, but they just don't car

As Covboy mentions, PIA could probably fly from Quetta to most Middle-East capitals/major cities with a full plane.

HOWEVER, they would still be making a loss as PIA's cost base is high and these routes you suggest are low yield.

So do you think it was very bright of you to say that 8 c checks are going to cost 4.5m$ while I was mentioning few million dollars a month of revenue? If a c check comes every 15-20 months, which costs about 550k as you say, then you have to divide that by 15-20 months and compare that cost to the monthly revenue I mentioned. This comes to $1m+ revenue, while c check costing 36k assuming c check is every 15 months. And the A check, which are more frequent, will not be costing an arm and leg either.

It is inexcusable that PIA cannot serve this route. If flydubai and other airlines can operate this route, they obviously know they can make profit on this sector. So I wonder why low yield isn't stopping ME airline expansion to small airports of Pakistan that PIA in the past has neglected.


Let's stop this argument about costs etc. If some airline can make a route profitable in Pakistan, then it is the incompetency of domestic airlines that couldn't make that happen. I suggest you watch Dubai airport documentary series on national geographic to see how hard that nation management works.

[TAILWIND]

A 'C' check is generally 3 years, though can vary slightly between operator to operator. The one I know have C check scheduled at 1000 days/16000FH.

[Abbas Ali]

According to Express News channel:

* Seventh dry leased Airbus A320-200 (AP-BLS) has joined PIA fleet.

* The aircraft is or will be configured to carry a total of 158 passengers. 150 Economy Class passengers and 8 Business Class passengers.

* Two more dry leased A320 aircraft are expected to join PIA fleet this year (most likely AP-BLT and AP-BLU).

It means by the end of year 2015 PIA will have a total of nine dry leased A320 aircraft.

Abbas

[ammad]

^ I think remaining 2 A320 will join fleet by end of June.

[Abbas Ali]

^ Correct. Remaining two A320s (AP-BLT & AP-BLU) expected to join PIA by the end of June, according to newspaper reports published today.

Abbas

[imiakhtar]

So I wonder why low yield isn't stopping ME airline expansion to small airports of Pakistan that PIA in the past has neglected.

Three words. Lower Cost Base.

A 'C' check is generally 3 years, though can vary slightly between operator to operator. The one I know have C check scheduled at 1000 days/16000FH.

It certainly isn't 3 years/C Check for the A320.

When I started in Network Planning at a large European airline 6 years ago, the A320 at that time were on a 15 month interval per C check task group.

Soon after, my employer got regulatory approval from the CAA to extend the C check maintenance intervals to 20 months. The numbers I give below are taken from my employer's Airbus A320 fleet maintenance planning document. I've included the old C check interval data too for comparison purposes:

Initial 'old' C check intervals and task required:

Check Interval Tasks required
C1 15 months 1C
C2 30 months 1C+2C
C3 45 months 1C
C4 60 months 1C+2C+4C+S1 (During the 4th C check, a S1 structural check becomes due too)
C5 75 months 1C
C6 90 months 1C+2C
C7 105 months 1C
C8 120 months 1C+2C+4C+S1+S2 Two structural checks. Very expensive!

Current A320 C check intervals and task required:

Check Interval Tasks required
C1 20 months/6000FH/4500FC 1C
C2 40 months/12000FH/9000FC 1C+2C
C3 60 months/18000FH/13500FC 1C+3C
C4 72 months/24000FH/18000FC 1C+2C+4C+S1 S1 check becomes due at 72 months
C5 100 months/30000FH/22500FC 1C+5C
C6 120 months/36000FH/27000FC 1C+2C+3C+6C
C7 140 months/42000FH/31500FC 1C
C8 144 months/48000FH/36000FC 1C+2C+4C+8C+S1+S2 S2 check becomes due at 144 months

Now, under the latest A320 MPD which I listed above, the C4 and C8 checks become due at 80 and 160 months. However, as the structural checks are due every 72 months, most airlines will carry out an earlier C4/C8 check when S1/S2 become due as it limits ground time overall.

[faiq]

By the way PIA not utilizing the aircrafts i.e A320s to maximum utility. They can make them fly 15-18 hours a day.

[imiakhtar]

By the way PIA not utilizing the aircrafts i.e A320s to maximum utility. They can make them fly 15-18 hours a day.

The highest utilization rates on the A320 are at most 13hours/day.

It is extremely rare for a narrowbody fleet to exceed 13hours/day. However, Long haul aircraft like the A330 and B777 do regularly see airlines operating them 13-15hours/day.

[faiq]

Ok :p