PIA flight forced to land in Indonesia

[meekal ahmed]

If he did not drift off-course, why was he intercepted and asked to land at the nearest available airfield and heap embarrassment on the airline?

[Abbas Ali]

PIA Boeing 737-33A (AP-BEH) force landed in Indonesia - Photo Source: blogspot.com

According to a news report published in English daily 'The Express Tribune',

"PIA flight to Kuala Lumpur was recently forced to land by Indonesian Air Force jets because the flight operations department of the airline had failed to request permission to cross Indonesian airspace on the way to Malaysia. The flight eventually made it to Kuala Lumpur after several hours in Indonesia."

It seems PIA crew thought they had permission to use Indonesian air space but the Indonesian authorities believed that the PIA aircraft did not have proper permission for flying through Indonesian air space.

Abbas

[meekal ahmed]

Whatever the reason for the deviation into unauthorized airspace, this is sloppy airman-ship.

Cockpit crew should be suspended pending a formal inquiry.

[Shahab]

As far as I understand from the discussion, the aircraft did not drifted from its course at any point. Again as per my understanding, the air space above East Timor is actually controlled by Indonesia, although East Timor is a separate country. So in order to fly to East Timor, they needed to sort Indonesian permission which they did not. The aircraft did the same route three days earlier without any problem. So it will be a question of poor airmanship only if it is the cockpit crew's responsibility to make sure there paper work is in order.

On a side note, who's responsibility it is to apply for permission to fly through a various airspaces, I mean who applies for a flight plan and ensure that all relevant permissions are sorted for PIA?

[FULLTHRUST]

GMCC!! and his cronies on the first place and then the captain of the flight for improper acceptance of flight documents and ADC (or whatever it is called there) from Indonesian authorities

[Abbas Ali]

Yes, some sort of misunderstanding/confusion regarding permission obtained for flight's passage through Indonesian air space appears to be the cause of this incident.

If we look at the map it appears that avoiding Indonesian air space is not possible for an aircraft taking shortest possible route between Dili and Kuala Lumpur. So, I think using Indonesian air space must have been part of PIA Boeing 737 flight plan.

Either Indonesian authorities due to some misunderstanding forced PIA Boeing 737 to land at Makassar or somehow PIA did not have completed work for permission to use Indonesian air space for this particular flight on March 7 and in that case it seems that Boeing 737 cockpit crew was not aware that officials responsible for obtaining permission from Indonesian authorities have not completed their work.

Here it will also be interesting to know that before operating such flight how does cockpit crew know/verify that permission has been obtained for flight route by their airline/aircraft owner/operator. Is cockpit crew provided with some sort of documents indicating approval has been obtained from relevant authorities of the countries to be overflown by the aircraft ?

Route (not the actual flight path) of the PIA Boeing 737-300 on March 7 including forced landing at Makassar if it was flying from Dili to Islamabad via Kuala Lumpur and Dhaka.



Route (not the actual flight path) of the PIA Boeing 737-300 on March 7 including forced landing at Makassar if it was flying from Dili to Karachi via Kuala Lumpur and Dhaka.



Abbas

[FULLTHRUST]

Abbas, when you plan a flight, the enroute countries have to be informed for ground support and ATC clearances at least 24 hours prior to the planned departure. In case you are passing very close to No-fly zones, you need ADC - air defence clearance as well. I am not too sure whether all the paperwork was done or some thing some where was skipped (un-intentionally). In case of charters the 24 hour may not be 24 hours it could be anything from 3-5 days prior to departure. No one would dare to skip any point enroute intentionally. It is mere unprofessional attitude of PIA flight control. Also, your airlines' over-fly charges must be up-to-date to get flight clearances. You may remember PIA skipped Russian charges and then were flying longer routes for ultra-long haul flights at the cost of tremendous extra fuel. BTW - Who cares!!

One may get a list of NFZ worldwide at - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fly_zone

[Abbas Ali]

^ Thanks for the useful info - I appreciate it.

Abbas

[R.F.]

Abbas, further to what has been stated here a 'Over Flying Permission' is obtained by the airlines operation network department or routes department in conjunction with the concerned airspace regulatory authority prior to crossing/over flying any airspace. This permission can be either one time in the event of an unscheduled flight or an approval for a given time period in case of an scheduled operator / flight which is subject to renewal after the elapse of that period.

A copy of the overflying permission is circulated to the concerned FIR (Flight Information Regions) in advance and is in possession of the related airspace ATC. An onboard copy of the same is kept which is amongst the flight documentation and is in the form of a phonetic codes and numbers an authorization which upon request by the related ATC / FIR can be passed via R/T by the pilot especially in the event of a non - scheduled flight or a first time passage through an airspace, a practice mostly prevalent in third world countries.
These message/codes are cross checked by the ATC against their copy to ensure that the passed authorization is correct and for their records as well which may be used later for billing purposes commonly referred to as 'Over Flying Charges' .

This exercise is purely bureaucratic in nature and does not reflect upon any poor airmanship on the pilots part who have the least to do with it as they're doing their job by safely flying from point 'A' to 'B' based upon a given and approved document / authorization.
Probably in this case it was a lapse in the form of a communication failure on the part of the personnel involved either in PIA or the Indonesian authorities which are as inept, unprofessional and corrupt as any other third world bureaucracy or due to some long outstanding un-paid dues which are some of the common reasons for such drastic measures. The probability of a drift into a restricted airspace is remote as the pilots are cognizant of the airspace requirements and are fore warned by the ATC in the event of drift or potential airspace incursion.

Lastly however infrequent these incidents may happen especially whilst transiting through the former Soviet block where occasionally permission is denied and asked to return back in the event of Over Flying permission not being granted or revoked.

[Abbas Ali]

^ Thank you R.F. for very useful details. I really appreciate it very much.

Abbas

[meekal ahmed]

Excellent detail RF and Full Thrust.

Very simply, on your initial radio call before start-up ATC will give you your clearance to your destination via the active runway, SID and en-route way-points which has to be read back.This IMPLIES that you flight plan has been approved.

Of course all paper-work and clearances are checked at pre-departure briefing with the pilots and flight dispatcher. Standard procedure.

I suspect that despite my initial rush to judgement there was a foul-up somewhere.

But, folks, all we will get from PIA and CAA are deathly silence, obfuscation, denial and spin.