AirBlue jet down in Islamabad

[bravo45]

In a standardization meeting my chief instructor mentioned the incident implying it was pretty much a done deal. He said the radio altimeter warned the captain and he chose to ignore it. I am assuming he meant that the sensitive altimeter was incorrectly calibrated and the captain chose to follow it instead.

I intended to ask him the source of his information later, but forgot. I also need to read the last half of the thread, but is there any such version out there? I am also assuming his information was based on the CVR,

[meekal ahmed]

The RA's are alive at 2,500' AGL. There is (I think) an audible warning that they are alive and the PNF (in this case I presume the co-pilot) is supposed to call it out and "cross-checked, both sides".

The QNH setting is almost redundant in this kind of aircraft. You need to set the altimeters to the correct QNH given to you but the RA is the crucial monitoring read-out once they are alive below 2,500' AGL.

We should not forget he also most certainly got a caution followed by a warning from the terrain-based EGPWS and if I read the thread correctly (and remember what Sajjad (Nosey) Haider said on Pakistan TV) he was in an escape GA manouver at the time of impact with full-power. Obviously too late since the EGPWS will give you ample warning compared to the older look-down GPWS. Forget how many seconds of lead time the EGPWS gives. Someone here must know.

Both pilots seem to have ignored a lot of things and not only their RA's -- a complete break-down of basic airmanship. Hence the accident.

[Abbas Ali]

Nothing new in following news report.

Margalla plane crash caused by pilot error: CAA

26 Sep 10

ISLAMABAD: The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has presented the investigation report of the Margalla plane crash incident to the Ministry of Defense, revealing that the crash was caused by the pilot's mistake.

According to sources, this important information has been extracted from the recording of the black box; the control tower repeatedly told the pilot that he is heading in the wrong direction. The pilot, in reply to the control tower, said that he can see the hills.

The CAA investigation report, based on the recording of black box, further reveals that the co-pilot also repeatedly asked the pilot very loudly to take the plane up, but it was very late before he could had done it.

On July 28, an aeroplane of a private airline, Air Blue, crashed into the hills of Margalla in Islamabad claiming lives of 152 passengers, including crew members.

Source: www.samaa.tv

[meekal ahmed]

If there was this inter-change between the cockpit crew, it sheds a very bad light on the aircraft commander. His dismissing all warnings is a great example of that long-time killer in aviation -- supreme over-confidence. 'How could I be wrong after 27,000 hours and 35 years of flying? And what does this novice co-pilot of mine half my age know about flying?

What the co-pilot should have done is push the "Side-stick Priority" button and announce "I have control" as per SOP. However that would have required immense courage, guts and self-confidence on his part. He was just too young, too new and too deferential to his commander.

I think when they said 'we see the Margalla's' they propably didn't. He probably told his co-pilot to tell the tower that.

Does this happen? Of course.

A Capt. friend of mine (ex-PIA) who flew for RAM was returning to Casablanca where the weather was below minimums. No problem, you can still go to MDA/DH and take a look. However, this guy was determined to land since he had a dinner-date that evening. So he told his co-pilot, at MDA/DH tell the tower 'we have the field in sight' and are continuing.

As he recounted to me later, he did NOT have the field in sight at all and he simply continued his approach right through MDA/DH, flying the last segment by hand (the RAM Fokkers are a little more sophisticated than PIA's with a pretty good AP). The co-pilot made the anouncement as planned and they were 'cleared to land'. He just stayed on the guages and touched down on the center-line making visual contact with the runway at around 70'! He got to his date on-time.

All of us, no matter in what walk of life, push the envelope and the bounds of prudence sometime or the other. We drive recklessly, for example. Take chances. Push our luck. Pilot's have a long-standing record of cheating at MDA/DH despite all that is hammered into them during training. The vast majority make it and live to tell the tale of their 'machoism and bravado'. They brag about breaking SOP's. Only wimps go-around at MDA/DH, right? Of course as we know some -- thankfully it is a very small number -- don't make it and are buried with their fateful mistake.

[Abbas Ali]

I visited the site last week; Surprisingly, the debris of crash plane is still visible

Since last two days, helicopters have begun airlifting heavy pieces of wreckage, that were stuck in ground, from crash site, the wreckage pieces are being moved to Islamabad Airport, this was stated by Minister of Defence Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar in Parliament House today (September 27).

The minister in his statement also said that the pieces of wreckage will be reconstructed.

I don't see any need for reconstruction of wreckage as I feel it would be time wasting work. The wreckage is usually assembled in case of internal explosion suffered by the aircraft. Like for example Pan Am Boeing 747-100 that exploded overy Lockerbie, Scotland, on 21 December 1988, and its wreckage was assembled to locate bomb explosion point. Another example is TWA Boeing 747-100 which disintegrated over Atlantic Ocean on July 17, 1996, and its wreckage was also assembled to find out cause of explosion and disintegration of the aircraft during flight. Fuel tank explosion was identified as the cause of TWA Boeing 747 explosion. Due to internal explosion during the flight, large pieces of wreckage of Pan Am Boeing 747 and TWA Boeing 747 came down which also helped investigators in assembling wreckage of these two aircraft.

The AirBlue Airbus A321 did not suffer any internal explosion before crashing into Margallah hills. According to eye witnesses, the aircraft was intact when it crashed into hills so I don't see any need for assembling aircraft wreckage.

The AirBlue Airbus A321 crash apparently is an example of Controlled Flight Into Terrain (CFIT).

Abbas

[Abbas Ali]

Confusion over construction of crash site monument

ISLAMABAD: There is no word on the memorial that the authorities had pledged to construct at the site of the Airblue plane crash in Margalla Hills two months into the tragic incident.

Capital Development Authority and Airblue administration had announced that a monument will be erected in the memory of the people who had died in the fateful flight on July 28.

But confusion reigns as both parties now present a different account on the possibility of constructing such a monument.

Alim Shahid, an Airblue official, said that the construction would be completed before the first anniversary of the incident. The company is also planning to build a wall at the graveyard at H-11 where the passengers are buried.

“This is a joint venture with CDA and we hope it will be completed before the first year commemoration,” he said.

Expressing confidence on the execution of the plan, Chairman Airblue Shahid Kamran also said a committee had been constituted by CDA for the project, with the location also having been finalised. “Construction would begin as soon as the entire wreckage of the plane has been collected,” he said.

However, Ramzan Sajid, spokesperson CDA, said that Airblue administration had not contacted the civic agency so far. “They did not enter into a formal or informal communication with the administration on the matter. They would need CDA’s permission. There is a possibility that they will not allowed to build the monument at all,” he said.

Disassociating the authority from Airblue’s plans, Sajid said that CDA was planning to construct another monument on its own to commemorate the six youth parliamentarians who had lost their lives in the incident.

Moreover, Deputy Commissioner Islamabad Amir Ali Ahmed said that ICT administration would pursue the matter further with Airblue regarding construction of a wall in the H-11 graveyard of the capital. “No concrete steps have been taken to pursue the plan by the Airblue administration so far,” he added.

On July 28, Airblue flight ED-202 flying from Karachi crashed into Margalla Hills in Islamabad at 9:45, killing all 152 onboard.

Source: tribune.com.pk

[inducedrag]

Any news about findings

[meekal ahmed]

There was an extremely disappointing report in The News (I think on 7 October) which basically said that no progress was being made in the investigation and that the committee had not even met once! This is, sadly, so typical.

It seems the de-coding work has been completed -- but that the cause of the accident has not been determined. That does not make sense. Combining the CVR and DFDR should give you very strong clues as to the "probable cause".

[Abbas Ali]

According to DAWN TV news channel, the news channel has received copy of AirBlue flight ED-202 accident preliminary report.

The report will be presented to Standing Committee on Defence of National Assembly tomorrow (October 15), according to DAWN TV news channel.

Let's see, whether anything new is revealed to general public or not after presentation of preliminary report at Standing Committee meeting.

Abbas

[meekal ahmed]

Abbas,

That is a formality. A procedure is being followed. No one in the Defense Committee can tell an Airbus from a Boeing far less comment usefully on the preliminary accident report and I don't think they will ask it be released to the public.

But I am prepared to be surprised -- in a positive sense.

If they do release it and the "probable cause" is what we all think it will be, they could be a flood of lawsuits -- even abroad with lawyers working on a "contingency" payment basis which means they get paid only if the suit is successful.

Let that be. People who have suffered and lost bread-winners, deserve to be compensated. As I said before there is the concept of "blood-money" even in Islam.It is fair and it will bring some sort of "closure" and comfort to the bereaved.

[Moin]

According to the person in ED I had a chance meeting with today, they are erecting a memorial at the crash site at their own expense with a road and walking track leading upto it. Compensation of Rs.5 million per passenger is being given by ED to the families of the victims. He also said the ATC was not to blame for this accident as they only monitor incoming traffic by radar outside a certain radius after which they hand over the flight to approach control and basically they were to make sure the runway was cleared for landing. According to him, this was a case of pilot error and disorientation.

[meekal ahmed]

ATC, it would seem, is a part of the links in the chain which resulted in the accident.

From the leaked tapes which we have all read, they seem to be a contributory factor.

However, the buck stops with the Captain of 202.

[Moin]

What is even more interesting is that he told me that ED recently let go of the 6 ex-PIA pilots who had crossed 62 years of age who have now gone back to PIA and have been accepted by PIA.

[bernyjee]

All discussions and anlaysis, so far, points to the core puzzle: Reasons for aircraft diversion from its final approach/route and why pilots (Captain primarily) did/could not react promptly to rectify the situation?

ATC and Radar seemed to have done their job well (though not perfectly) by alerting/contacting the crew as soon as they understood the gravity of the situation.

In the absence of equipment malfunction, pilot errors might be the primary cause for the tragedy.

[ABQ]

Investigative agencies fail to complete Air-Blue crash report

Islamabad—National Assembly Standing Committee on Defence expressed annoyance as Civil Aviation and Investigative agencies failed to complete the report of Air Blue plane crash, which occurred few months back at Margalla Hills in Federal Capital and directed the authorities to complete it at earliest. The committee also directed the Air-Blue administration to release the compensation fund and insurance money to the victims families as soon as possible.

The NA body on Defence met here on Friday under the chair of MNA Dr. Azra Fazal Pechuho, which was given a detailed briefing on the performance of Metrological Department, discussion on the accident of Air-Blue crash and matters related to Defence Housing Authority (DHA). Secretary Defence, Let. Gen.(R) Athar Ali Khan told the committee that the investigations regarding the plane crash have not been yet completed and it could take further six months or one year period as investigation is going on in aspects of the accident.

However, he said that the wreckage of the crashed air craft is being shifted from the site of the accident to Benazir Bhutto International Airport, Islamabad. He further said that some nineteen people boarded on the plane have not been identified and their mass burial was held, where a memorial would also be constructed.—Online
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Pakistan Observer