AirBlue jet down in Islamabad

[Abbas Ali]

I wonder if authorities involved in the search n rescue of this crash have picked up every bit of the wreckage or if there is still lots scattered on that hill?, plus i wonder if they will try to re assemble/re-construct the remains of aircraft to analyze any possibility that could answer some questions indicating cause of this crash.

Wreckage is usually assembled in case of internal explosion suffered by the aircraft. Like for example Pan Am Boeing 747-100 that exploded overy Lockerbie, Scotland, on 21 December 1988, and its wreckage was assembled to locate bomb explosion point. Another example is TWA Boeing 747-100 which disintegrated over Atlantic Ocean on July 17, 1996, and its wreckage was also assembled to find out cause of explosion and disintegration of the aircraft during flight. Fuel tank explosion was identified as the cause of TWA Boeing 747 explosion. Due to internal explosion during the flight, large pieces of wreckage of Pan Am Boeing 747 and TWA Boeing 747 came down which also helped investigators in assembling wreckage of these two aircraft.

The AirBlue Airbus A321 did not suffer any internal explosion before crashing into Margallah hills. The aircraft was intact when it crashed into hills so I don't see any need for assembling aircraft wreckage. Secondly apparently due to aircraft's speed and force of impact, the wreckage of AirBlue A321 was seen in very small pieces in TV new footage.

Any news regarding the CVR and FDR data?

CVR and FDR of the aircraft have been sent to France for decoding process which can take months, according to news sources.

Abbas

[meekal ahmed]

Abbas,

We know this "months" thing is an eye-wash. It did not take "months" to de-code the CVR/DFDR on the Turkish jet which crashed at Amsterdam.

Mark my words, next they will give us a leak and say the recorders are damaged and getting anything meaningful out of them may be difficult.

Spin, lies, obfuscation, we are, the CAA is, sadly masters at.

[Boomin Bomber IJ]

Interesting debate though however wrong Forum...........

True. I had to bring this up because of the wrong use of 'Shaheed' so common in our society; secondly, because I read somewhere on this thread about people criticising a poor deceased woman's pic without head covering.

Do apologize for this outburst, somehow find it hard to stomach this preaching revolving around women vis- a - vis Pakistani male muslims in general..................numerous other pending issues that need to be dealt on a war footing at this stage......

Brother, problem is as long as we keep putting aside God's Guidance we will keep on lagging behind the rest of the world. Implement The Quran, and our society will be free of all these evils we are being plagued with. By implementing The Quran I do not mean what these Mullahs dictate; Quran gives utmost respect to women without putting them behind locks.

[meekal ahmed]

Boy, this is real off-topic!

[Abbas Ali]

AirBlue Crash Investigation Details Sought by National Assembly Committee

AUGUST 17, 2010 – According to DAWN news channel, Pakistan National Assembly’s Standing Committee on Defence has sought details of AirBlue crash investigation.

The meeting will be held on August 24, according to Director General Civil Aviation Authority (CAA). The committee has asked for record of Air Traffic Control communication related to AirBlue accident to be presented at the meeting. The management of AirBlue also has been asked to attend the meeting.

The August 24 meeting might reveal details like last moments of communication between ATC and AirBlue flight cockpit crew, and path taken by the aircraft and related info like last known altitude and exact height from ground of aircraft’s impact point with Maragalla Hills.

Abbas

[Abbas Ali]

NA body calls for preliminary report of Air Blue tragedy

ISLAMABAD: The National Assembly Standing Committee for Defence has demanded the preliminary investigative report of crash of AirBlue Airbus and has summoned the next meeting on 24th August.

While the committee has also summoned Director General (DG) Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and the Chief of Air Blue. The meeting would be held on Tuesday, 24 August at 10:00 am and would be chaired by Chairperson Defence Committee Dr. Ezra Afzal. It would have 5-points agenda for discussion.

The committee would record the statements of the DG, CIA and Chief of Air Blue while the committee has demanded all the data of Air Traffic Control.

Source: www.onlinenews.com.pk

[Abbas Ali]

Pakistan Air Crash Blamed on Poor Visibilty, Pilot Error

By ANDY PASZTOR

An international team of safety experts believes poor visibility and pilot navigation slipups likely caused last month's crash of a Pakistani airliner that killed 152 people on approach to Islamabad, aviation-industry officials said.

The Airbus A321 operated by Airblue Ltd. was en route from Karachi when it flew into heavily forested hills as it was circling to land at the Islamabad airport in fog and rain. Preliminary information retrieved from the plane's flight-data recorder, according to officials familiar with the details, indicates that its engines, flight-control systems and other onboard equipment operated normally before impact.

Readouts of the recovered "black box," these officials said, also indicate that the cockpit crew at the last moment may have realized the jetliner was on a collision course with the slope and apparently tried to climb out of danger. The plane impacted near a ridge of the Margalla Hills. Early reports indicated that many flights into Islamabad had been cancelled or diverted that morning due to poor visibility, but some eyewitnesses said the weather improved somewhat before the Airblue plane's approach.

It was the second crash of a Pakistani airliner in four years, prompting renewed concerns about the country's aviation safety amid rapid airline industry expansion. Started in 2004 by Pakistani businessman and politician Shahid Khaqan Abbasi, Airblue has quickly grown into the nation's No. 2 carrier behind state-owned Pakistani International Airlines Corp.

While the Islamabad probe is far from finished and no determination s have been made, Airbus last week gave the strongest signal yet that it essentially has ruled out aircraft malfunction as a probable cause of the crash

In a message to all A321 operators around the world, said a person familiar with the details, Airbus said information uncovered so far about the Islamabad accident provides "no basis for any recommendations" related to airplane systems or performance. Among aviation-safety experts, such a message is tantamount to saying investigators strongly believe mistakes by the cockpit crew, rather than any airplane malfunctions, most likely were responsible for the crash.

The message was cleared by Pakistani investigators, further indicating that the team of international experts agrees that the accident didn't stem from any airplane problems.

A spokesman for Airbus, a unit of European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co., said the company is working with Airblue and the investigating authorities, but gave no further details. A spokesman for Airblue said the investigation "is still not completed, so we cannot say anything at the moment about the causes."

In another sign that investigators are focusing on navigational errors, one safety expert said the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board opted against sending a team to Pakistan once engine issues effectively were ruled out as possible primary or contributing causes. Nevertheless, the board is participating in the investigation from its offices in Washington.

Source: The Wall Street Journal

[inducedrag]

DATE:23/08/10
SOURCE:Air Transport Intelligence news
Airblue A321 crash: No evidence of technical problems
By David Kaminski-Morrow

Preliminary inquiries into the fatal Airblue Airbus A321 accident outside Islamabad last month suggest the aircraft suffered no technical problems before the crash.
Flight ED202 had been attempting to land at the Pakistani capital on 28 July but struck terrain north of the airport.
Both the cockpit-voice and flight-data recorders have been successfully read by the French investigation agency Bureau d'Enquetes et d'Analyses.
This information has enabled investigators to "determine a preliminary analysis", says a source familiar with the inquiry.
"It is fair to say that the [investigators] should have everything they need to understand what happened," the source states, adding that there is "no indication of any technical malfunction".
"The cause of this accident seems to be on the operational side."
Airbus has informed operators of A320-family aircraft that it has "no specific recommendation to raise", effectively a statement that nothing points to a need for carriers to make technical checks or modify their operations.
Links posted in this story:
Airbus A320|Airbus

[meekal ahmed]

Well, I must say I am quite impressed with this -- admittedly -- preliminary report. It hints at a few things. Of course Airbus is very keen to ensure that there is nothing to implicate the Airbus.

As I said earlier, it does not take six months to de-code the black box as reported in the media. They apparently have already done it.

Now they need to look at the chain of events which caused the accident and find the link where the chain broke.

It appears they were in go-around mode. They were some witnesses to that. The roar of the application of full-power on a jet is unmistakable. If the EGPWS was not inhibited by the landing configuration, it should have provided ample warning of terrain ahead. Unlike the old GPWS, the EGPWS is terrain-based and can, as far as I know, look forward rather than only straight down. That is why it is called "Enhanced".

All one can speculate is that the crew did not react quickly enough or aggressively enough to the warning. This happens when you are sure you know where you are and a computer tells you you are not.

You freeze. Because your instant reaction is one of disbelief.

In the Airbus -- I am told -- all you need to do is pull the side-stick all the way back and hold it there. The sensors will automatically apply GA power and confirm speed-brakes are in. The pilots need to select gear up and Flaps 2 and get the hell out of there.

It did not happen.

[oxon]

OXON has managed to get info from the black box. It seemed like that it was pilot fault ( may be some kind of heart or other sort of attack) ... very last minutes:
Second officer voice " sir , nose up ... nose up .... nose up " ..... there was no response from pilot but low, intermittant grunting noise.

[TEMOOR]

OXON has managed to get info from the black box. It seemed like that it was pilot fault ( may be some kind of heart or other sort of attack) ... very last minutes:
Second officer voice " sir , nose up ... nose up .... nose up " ..... there was no response from pilot but low, intermittant grunting noise.

i disagree or may call this report as bogus.See if the captain was not responding then the first officer must have realised this when the plane started to divert.and it went more than 10 miles away and then crashed.what was the first officer doing at that time?giving cpr ? what you say is at last minutes he said nose up.obviously if he saw captain having attack he must have taken the controls .what was he thinking that the captain will revive and will say ok my first officer i am pulling the stick up.we cant come up with results until and unless the final report is handed over.

[jameel.ashraf3]

every single possibility what above user have mentioned is in Aviation but not in ED202 case,

FDR data has been revealed and it has found that, " First officer Alerted Captain of Getting close to Margalla, Captain responded by saying ' we will make wider circuit to land ' First Officer (once at high risk) almost Screamed ' Sir Pull up, pull up ' Captain noticed the Danger and Captain suddenly ' turned AUTO PILOT Heading Bug to the Left but turned MORE THAN 180 degrees ' which made aircraft to make SUDDEN RIGHT turn (whenever you use autopilot always use is not more than one Quadrant and then turn more and more). Because its easy for Autopilot to turn towards lesser Heading rather than all the way around Turn. "

This information is " known to Almost Many Senior Pilots in Airblue NOW "

Expect a statement from BEA France and Airbus soon, but they won't release FDR information as advised by CAA PK. Its like some Oath or Strict policy between CAA, Airline, BEA France and Airbus. They will tell you the reason though.

They say the world has become too complex for simple answers, Its was easy investigation to find error and you just found error from FDR.

If you not agree with with what i have written above, please then DO NOT WRITE 1000 POSSIBILITIES OF WHAT YOUR MIND SAYs. WAIT WAIT AND WAIT.... If you are Field Related and still want to comment please try to get hold on some Airblue or BEA France or Airbus source to confirm.

THanks, Cheers n bye

[R.F.]

Sounds Plausible......................

[oxon]

OXON has managed to get info from the black box. It seemed like that it was pilot fault ( may be some kind of heart or other sort of attack) ... very last minutes:
Second officer voice " sir , nose up ... nose up .... nose up " ..... there was no response from pilot but low, intermittant grunting noise.

i disagree or may call this report as bogus.See if the captain was not responding then the first officer must have realised this when the plane started to divert.and it went more than 10 miles away and then crashed.what was the first officer doing at that time?giving cpr ? what you say is at last minutes he said nose up.obviously if he saw captain having attack he must have taken the controls .what was he thinking that the captain will revive and will say ok my first officer i am pulling the stick up.we cant come up with results until and unless the final report is handed over.

Bogus .... you must be joking ... my information is 100% correct .

[hasan saleem]

Oxon... could you share the source of your information...?