AirBlue jet down in Islamabad

[AP-BGL]

^ Ameen
riz I personally drop him at the airport at 6:15am and saw AP-BJB docked at the passenger air brigde

Divine, I know there is no alternate to a word 'Father'. All I can do is to pray to God that May he gives you and your family courage to bear this irrecoverable loss. You lost the biggest thing in your life and I can well imagine what would you have been going through these days.

May Allah keep everyone in his warm protection. Ameen!

[Huraiz]

Missing my Father who died in that tragic accident .. May ALLAH Accept His Martyrdom
Ameen

So sorry to hear about your father..May Allaha SWT bless him with jannat and give you and your family the courage to overcome this great loss..

[thunderfalcon]

Are you saying the when PAF pilots are inducted in AirBlue, they don't go through enough training on civilian aircraft, navigational processes and procedures etc? If I am not wrong, PIA used to induct PAF pilots on F-27 first after due training and then move them upwards. AirBlue does not have any small aircraft, so not sure about their process or policy in this space

The Problem is that Fighter Pilots are not used to this type of Weather. And The FO did not have 2Years of Line Experience it was his second Flight after undergoing Sim Trg. I think he is the only Pilot inducted and trained by Airblue this year. As per my Info he was inducted on Sifarish by Shaukat Aziz (Ex Premier) whom Shahid Khaqan ows a lot in facilitating him in setting up a new Airline.
I know all PAF Pilots are hurt but this is the fact.

[thunderfalcon]

Please....The FO was not inexperienced. 2 years of line flying is in the eyes of the West an experienced FO. Don't be so quick to blame experience. I've flown with pilots who have been flying for 20 years but need to have their license revoked!

The FO did not have 2Years of Line Experience it was his second Flight after undergoing Sim Trg. I think he is the only Pilot inducted and trained by Airblue this year. As per my Info he was inducted on Sifarish by Shaukat Aziz (Ex Premier) whom Shahid Khaqan ows a lot in facilitating him in setting up a new Airline.
Why did Airblue stopped flying on KHI-UET-KHI route? Just having two accidentsi.e one Hardlanding and one tailhit does not warrnt suspension of a Route rather one has to go to the root of the problem. Kindly check up the Backgr of the Pilots involved in these two incidents at UET. PIA operates Widebody Aircraft but with an an excellent safety record at UET whereas Airblue operates a narrow body. Pilots which is easier to flly in conditions like UET?
IPAF Pilots no hard feelings I myself served in the PAF once but this is the fact.

[adamalikhan]

I think he is the only Pilot inducted and trained by Airblue this year. As per my Info he was inducted on Sifarish by Shaukat Aziz (Ex Premier) whom Shahid Khaqan ows a lot in facilitating him in setting up a new Airline.

AirBlue seem to have quite a few new pilots being trained. When I went from MAN-ISB on 23/04 from Trabzon to ISB, there were 3 crew in the cockpit, I guess one was on training. On my return from Trabzon to ISB there were also 3 crew. I spoke to one of them when he came to take a break and was seated in row 1. He told me how he had joined the airline one year ago and this was his 3/4th flight and he was still in training.

[Zulfiqar]

Divine, really sad to learn of your father. May Allah grant him peace... Ameen.

[Abbas Ali]

The Problem is that Fighter Pilots are not used to this type of Weather. And The FO did not have 2Years of Line Experience it was his second Flight after undergoing Sim Trg.

Late First Officer Muntajib was a former PAF F-16 fighter pilot and I believe F-16s are flown by best of the best fighter pilots of the air force. Combat aircraft flying also requires lots of skill in areas like interception and precision in day & night strike/bombing/interception missions. So Muntajib must have shown good performance and flying skills for getting selected to fly F-16 which is the premier combat aircraft in PAF inventory.

Similarly, I believe C-130 transport aircraft are flown by highly skilled PAF pilots on difficult routes and in difficult weather conditions specially on routes over mountainous northern areas of the country.

There certainly must be differences in flying a fighter aircraft and a commercial airliner. But I think Muntajib with the passage of time by gaining experience and accumulating more hours on commercial airliner flights would have become a good commercial aircraft pilot like many other former military aircraft pilots who are working as commercial aircraft pilots in various airlines of the world. Sadly, fate did not give Muntajib that much time.

According to a newspaper article, First Officer Muntajib had joined AirBlue nearly a year ago and he had 300 hours experience on Airbus A320 family aircraft according to a statement by AirBlue CEO Shahid Khaqan Abbasi printed in local newspapers.

On ill-fated AirBlue flight ED-202 of July 28, First Officer Muntajib, who was at the start of his career as airline pilot, was apparently correctly paired with highly experienced Capt. Pervez Iqbal Chaudhry who had over 25,000 flying hours experience. What went wrong and how and why flight ED-202 crashed will be revealed by crash investigation report.

Btw, what kind of training procedure is adopted by airlines like for example Singapore Airlines and Cathay Pacific. On these two airlines apparently cadet pilots start their career as airline pilot directly on big widebody aircraft.

Why did Airblue stopped flying on KHI-UET-KHI route? Just having two accidentsi.e one Hardlanding and one tailhit does not warrnt suspension of a Route rather one has to go to the root of the problem.

Are you sure AirBlue suspended Quetta flights due to tail strike incident or did they suspend Quetta service on commercial basis due to factors like low passenger load ?

PIA operates Widebody Aircraft but with an an excellent safety record at UET whereas Airblue operates a narrow body.

A mistake was made by PIA cockpit crew also when they landed their aircraft (a narrowbody Boeing 737 according to some sources) on wrong runway at Quetta Airport last year. The main point is that mistake can be made by crew of any airline at any time at any place.

Abbas

[Moin]

With all due respect and without causing any offence, but how is Martyrdom (Shaheed) related to this? I was under the impression Martyrdom is when you die for a particular cause i.e. Islam, or in a war but I notice it being used whenever someone dies an unnatural death. I'm confused.

[SalamPaks]

May forum member Divine and family attain the strength to move on during this difficult time. My prayers and thoughts are with you Divine and with all those who lost loved ones in the Air Blue crash last week.

In reference to the question on martyrdom, my personal pov is that the concept of martyrdom is a very personal. I may not consider death under a particular circumstance to constitute martyrdom, but since I did not lose a loved one in this accident, who the hell am I to pass judgment over what the relative of someone else who did lose their life in this accident feels has met the criteria for martyrdom? It's sort of like the concept of jihad. Some people wage a jihad on their waistline their entire lives, some over a propensity to drink too much or womanize, and some just blow sh1t up and call it jihad! Anyway, interesting topic for another thread.

[Pineapple]

Are you saying the when PAF pilots are inducted in AirBlue, they don't go through enough training on civilian aircraft, navigational processes and procedures etc? If I am not wrong, PIA used to induct PAF pilots on F-27 first after due training and then move them upwards. AirBlue does not have any small aircraft, so not sure about their process or policy in this space

The Problem is that Fighter Pilots are not used to this type of Weather. And The FO did not have 2Years of Line Experience it was his second Flight after undergoing Sim Trg. I think he is the only Pilot inducted and trained by Airblue this year. As per my Info he was inducted on Sifarish by Shaukat Aziz (Ex Premier) whom Shahid Khaqan ows a lot in facilitating him in setting up a new Airline.
I know all PAF Pilots are hurt but this is the fact.

Unless you have solid evidence of these happenings. Keep your bogus theories to yourself. And do not devaluate a meaningful topic.

[EinsteinMux]

With all due respect and without causing any offence, but how is Martyrdom (Shaheed) related to this? I was under the impression Martyrdom is when you die for a particular cause i.e. Islam, or in a war but I notice it being used whenever someone dies an unnatural death. I'm confused.

The concept of Martyrdom (Shaheed) is very dynamic and Wide in Islam; this is what i learn during academic studies of Islam at school

i suggest you should take some guidance on this subject from some religious scholar Instead of discussing it on this forum

[VirtualPIA]

Shaheed is not used only for the people who die in war or conflict, etc. it is applied to a wide number of situations, including people who pass away due to plague, die by fire, drown, have a terminal illness or women who die during delivery (source=http://www.albalagh.net/qa/shaheed.shtml).

Divine, please accept our deepest condolences. May Allah grant your father a high rank in paradise.

[thunderfalcon]

thunderfalcon wrote:
Quote:
Are you saying the when PAF pilots are inducted in AirBlue, they don't go through enough training on civilian aircraft, navigational processes and procedures etc? If I am not wrong, PIA used to induct PAF pilots on F-27 first after due training and then move them upwards. AirBlue does not have any small aircraft, so not sure about their process or policy in this space


The Problem is that Fighter Pilots are not used to this type of Weather. And The FO did not have 2Years of Line Experience it was his second Flight after undergoing Sim Trg. I think he is the only Pilot inducted and trained by Airblue this year. As per my Info he was inducted on Sifarish by Shaukat Aziz (Ex Premier) whom Shahid Khaqan ows a lot in facilitating him in setting up a new Airline.
I know all PAF Pilots are hurt but this is the fact.



Unless you have solid evidence of these happenings. Keep your bogus theories to yourself. And do not devaluate a meaningful topic.

Mine may bea bogus theory. I may be lying. Please ask Airblue Pilots/Chief Pilot Training and also check up from his family. He was hired in the Beginning of this year etc. etc ... May god bless his soul and grant him a place in heaven along with all deceased on the flight.
Further no doubt PAF produces afine breed of Pilots, but not all fighter pilots are gonna become good commercial Pilots. Regards C-130 Pilots no doubt they are used to such flying . But Pls check up also from the PAF how many times a fighter pilot is trained in such weather including F 16 Pilots.

Why did Airblue stopped flying on KHI-UET-KHI route? Just having two accidentsi.e one Hardlanding and one tailhit does not warrnt suspension of a Route rather one has to go to the root of the problem.

Are you sure AirBlue suspended Quetta flights due to tail strike incident or did they suspend Quetta service on commercial basis due to factors like low passenger load ?

Regrds Quetta Route pls do check up from AirBlue records regards Pax Load from UET. It was good as their fare was lower than PIA.

[Huraiz]

A fighter pilot may not always be a good commercial pilot but I don't believe that PAF just hands over F 16 to anyone without giving them training in bad weather..

[Moin]

I would have thought that ex-Airforce pilots would be one of the best, subject to their age of course. All El Al pilots are ex-Israeli Airforce.