AirBlue jet down in Islamabad

[nopy99]

Umer, please do not be disheartened by new posters who are making inappropriate comments about your contributions. All the vetrans of the forum all understand your condition and posting style.

This really is a lesson for new posters who decide to jump to conclusions without having access to the full facts - I think another apology is due to Umer now

This also applies to drawing conclusions about the accident, dont jump to conclusions without having access to the full facts.

[Moin]

Wow, some of you people need to move on with the Umer comments. I remember awhile ago when I was new to the forums, I was confused as to why he was posting in the way he was. It was explained to me, a simple apology was given and there you go...time to move on. Let's talk more about this tragedy rather than Umer, he's contributing and by continuing to apologize to him or make a big deal out of the way he talks...you're not contributing.

This is common with new comers. Many cannot understand his style of typing/writing, so they ask questions or post some comment, then they get roasted, so they apologize and move on.

[A300before]

Youth Parliment Information Minister Rabab Naqvi dreamt of a crash exactly one year ago, following day her mother was travelling to ISB for something and she begged her not to fly, mother said little did she know she had dreant of her own plane, her brother said she was afaird of flying, information from ARY and Sama News posted at her rememberence page on face book, she sent a text message to her father at 7.21 saying I'm ready for take off.

http://www.samaa.tv/News23528-ED202_vic ... rash_.aspx


There are some people posting requests to the creator of the page to remove her photos and videos as she is not in hijab and they dont want to add to her gunahs, these people are using plain black avatar for their own use, Rabab and family never wore hijab in life.

An article in today's Dawn related to finding of the black box mentions the tail section having hit another spot before the plane crashed at its final location, they had to dig tail parts out from that place.

Daily Mail quotes Airblue stating there were 147 passengers and 7 crew which makes up the total number of three off duty ones http://dailymailnews.com/0710/29/FrontP ... x.php?id=5

Nahid Bhatti was not supposed to fly, she had been substituted for two other F/A's, the original one reported sick and the one that was to replace the original one also got sick, according to her colleagues interview.

Umme Habiba was sole earner of her family which was a widowed mother and a younger sister who was going to get married, her aim was to save for the wedding not even spending on herself on trips abroad.

Javeria was married with a five year old daughter, her husband was in Dubai looking for a job when this happened.

Watch this show for more on passengers and crew

[Abbas Ali]

Abbas Ali said 1000feet but How about sea level 1,700feet in Islamabad. I think perhaps maybe A321 was 2,700feet flight. Can you check how many sea level feet in Islamabad and Marghal hill mountain?

Islamabad Airport = 1688 feet above main sea level (AMSL).
Margalla Hills - Western End = 2247 feet above ground level (AGL) of Islamabad city/airport or 3935 feet above main sea level (AMSL).
Margalla Hills – Eastern End = 5262 feet above ground level (AGL) of Islamabad city/airport or 6950 feet above main seal level (AMSL).

According to statement of AirBlue CEO Shahid Khaqan Abbasi “At the time of the crash, the plane was flying at a height of 1,000 feet” (Source: The News). In his statement 1,000 feet is apparently aircraft’s height above ground level (AGL) of Islamabad city/airport and by adding Islamabad Airport elevation (1688 feet) we get 2688 feet as aircraft’s altitude above main sea level (AMSL).

However, according to info in a number of news articles like the one quoted below, the aircraft was at 2600 feet above main sea level which is equal to 912 feet above ground level (AGL) of Islamabad city/airport and then it climbed to 3000 feet AMSL which is equal to 1312 feet above ground level of Islamabad city/airport moments before crashing into Margalla Hills. Probably that climb during last moments was an attempt made by cockpit crew to avoid hitting hills. According to news reports, ground witnesses also heard sudden increase in engines noise before the aircraft struck hills.

From these reports, it seems the aircraft was flying at height of between 912 feet and 1312 feet above ground level of Islamabad city/airport (2688 feet to 3000 feet above main sea level) when it crashed into Margalla Hills.

Here’s another news report with info about approach procedure for runway 12.

One Islamabad airport runway is equipped with an Instrument Landing System (ILS). ILS provides precision guidance through clouds or fog down to the runway so that landing can be made safely in all but the most limiting weather conditions.

But runway 12 has no ILS. To land on runway 12 a plane must first descend through whatever clouds are present, possibly by using the runway 30 ILS. Then, when the airport is in sight, the plane must be maneuvered visually around to runway 12.

The runway is 1688 feet above sea level. To maneuver around to runway 12 safely, the pilot should maintain an altitude of 2688 feet or more. Reports say the plane was at 2600 feet when cleared to land, and climbed a bit higher to 3000 before crashing into the hills.

Airline pilot Meekal Ahmed described it this way. "If you are using runway 12 as . . . there is no ILS . . . the procedure (which I never thought was safe) is you fly the ILS to 30 and then you break off and turn right and fly parallel to the Margalla hills and then turn back in and land on 12."

Instead of staying close to the airport and parallel to the Margalla hills, the went too wide and into the hills.

Source: www.examiner.com

Abbas

[Abbas Ali]

According to info on the web, PIA flight PK-356 from Lahore to Islamabad landed at Islamabad Airport around 9:30AM some 15 minutes before AirBlue Airbus A321 crashed into Margalla Hills around 9:45AM on July 28, 2010.

Apparently, PIA flight landed on runway 12 - the same runway on which AirBlue was attempting to land - according to letter to editor by a passenger of July 28, 2010 PIA flight PK-356 available for reading >>here <<. A United Nations flight from Kabul had also landed at Islamabad before AirBlue accident, but flight of China Southern was diverted, according to news report posted >>here<<.

Btw, government officials including president, interior minister and information in their statements have said that the crash investigation report should be or will be released to public. AirBlue CEO Shahid Khaqan Abbasi also has demanded release of crash investigation report to public. The interim report is expected to be released in 2-3 months time and will be handed over to the government, according to CAA Director General Junaid Amin.

Abbas

[Abbas Ali]

Four days after plane crash

Airblue yet to decide compensation amount

Sunday, August 01, 2010

By Saad Hasan

KARACHI: Four days after the Margalla plane crash, Airblue remains undecided about the compensation amount for the victims’ families as intricate laws of air-travel insurance in the country confuse even the chief of the private-airline.

“Right now it’s hard to tell the extent of the insurance coverage,” Shahid Khaqan Abbasi, Chief Operating Officer of Airblue, told The News. “A lot of complications are involved in this matter because there is no clear law for passenger insurance (in Pakistan).”

There were 152 people, including six crew members, onboard the flight ED 202 of Airblue, which crashed in Islamabad on the morning of July 28.

The Carriage by Air Act 2010, which awaits approval from the National Assembly, says that each family would be given 500,000 rupees, he said. “This amount varies when it comes to Montreal Convention or the laws of Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).”

The representatives of Airblue’s insurance company have started registering relatives of the victims.

“But I assure you that the families won’t be cheated in anyway,” Abbasi said.

The compensations paid in previous air accidents could help in deciding the amount that needs to be paid, he added. “We will sit with CAA, look at the precedents and only then we will decide something.”

Airblue, he said, mentions on the jacket of its ticket that a domestic passenger remained covered to the tune of one million rupees. “Even that is not final. I agree that in case of the PIA Fokker crash in 2006, the national carrier had to pay two million rupees to each affected family, much more than what was initially perceived.”

EFU General Insurance is Airblueís insurer with Willis behind as its reinsurance company. He said the insurance amount of the crashed Airbus 321 aircraft was 35 million dollars and Airblue was using the aircraft on operating lease from International Lease Finance Corporation.

Lawyers and experts say that under the CAA rules, Airblue will have to pay Rs4.2 million to each family, but the amount will jump to Rs12.8 million each, if the matter is settled in line with international conventions.

According to aviation experts, the existing Civil Aviation rules follow Hague Protocol of 1955, which guarantees 250,000 francs as insurance claim for a passenger. “If Airblue goes by these rules, it will end up paying an amount of Rs613 million as total compensation,” they added.

The tabled Carriage by Air Act, on the other hand, is derived form the Montreal Convention which sets the compensation amount much higher if the victim was an international passenger, lawyers say.

“CAA rules do not discriminate between a local and international passenger,” experts said adding, “The compensation amount to each family of Margalla plane crash, under Montreal Convention, may go up to 100,000 SDRs (special drawing rights) or Rs12.8 million each.” An SDR is equal to 1.51 US dollars. This would place the total compensation amount of all the passengers to Rs1.8 billion, experts added.

Source: The News

[bhattman]

What if the old captain himself got a funny idea in his head? With all these suicide bombings going on in the name of Islam, it has become a bit difficult to trust anyone completely, especially the Mullah types.

What an absurd statement to make one could make "Boomin Bomber". Just because a person has a beard does not make him a mullah and certainly does not make him become a suicide bomber.
You talk of trust??? I ask the question who are you?

[A300before]

I once saw a PIA 747 flying early evening flight from KHI to RWY 12 from beyond F10 weather was as clear and sunny as can be, which means they do go as far as E sector at times.

Khaqan Abbasi claims pilot rested for 36 hours, pious people dont sleep on Shab-e-Barat and Capt's brother-in-law said he was very pious doing middle night prayers too, and wouldnt be surprised if he was fasting on that day. Nothing wrong but maybe he should have not been so rigid in practice keeping his age and responsibilty in mind, plus the Diabetes rumor if true, just because he was religious doesnt mean he may have not been wrong somewhere.

[TAILWIND]

What if the old captain himself got a funny idea in his head? With all these suicide bombings going on in the name of Islam, it has become a bit difficult to trust anyone completely, especially the Mullah types.

Very insensitive

[TAILWIND]

.... pious people dont sleep on Shab-e-Barat ......

What a strange conjecture. Please forgive the poor pilot's beard.
I must advise all bearded and religious looking pilots (present and future) to change their apperance lest they are also accused of funny things in case something happens

[A300before]

Never judge a book by its cover, and yes his beard length should not be acceptable in this field ICAO and CAA should have a ruling on this and hairstyles for cockpit and cabin crew.

[TAILWIND]

Though donot claim to be an authority, yet I have never came accross any ICAO, FAA, EASA or CAA rule regarding pilots' beard.

[Moin]

There are some people posting requests to the creator of the page to remove her photos and videos as she is not in hijab and they dont want to add to her gunahs, these people are using plain black avatar for their own use, Rabab and family never wore hijab in life.

What?? The woman is dead and they're are obsessed about her clothing?? Honestly its mind boggling how some people can obsess about nothing but womens clothing and their hair. They should worry about their own gunahs and think with clean minds. This perverse obsession with women is sickening.

[Huraiz]

Bloody hell,Why this thread is drifting towards a discussion about beard and hijab.So what if this pilot was religious..I'm sure it wasnt his first shab e barat,if he always read midnight prayer then he must be doing it for long time..What makes you think that his prayers caused this accident..?? or somebody not wearing a hijab caused this cause she is GUNAH GAR.
We as Pakistani should take a step back and think,whats happening thses days.This crash and now floods...Take a middle path thats the only way..
Lets just pray for victims and that includes pilots...and hop that we get proper investigation done for this crash so we can find out the truth....

[iqbal]

The most recent OPRN chart is May 2003 (don't shoot me if I am wrong!)