AirBlue jet down in Islamabad

[Abbas Ali]

Yesterday Mr Nazir Naji wrote his colunm in daily Jang about this incident. For those who can read Urdu the link is below:

http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/jul2010-dai ... 0/col2.htm

Mr Naji in his story has cooked a conspiracy theory that can be summarized below:

2. There was a bunch of people found chanting slogans of Allah o Akbar close to the wreckage of ill fated jetliner seen by the people who first arrived at the site

Nara-e-Takbeer (Allah-o-Akbar - God is Great) slogan was raised to boost morale of people taking part in search/rescue operation at crash site.

Here's related photo which appeared in July 30, 2010 edition of Urdu daily 'Waqt' (www.dailywaqt.com) and it shows policemen raising 'Nara-e-Takbeer' slogan to boost morale of their colleagues working at crash site on July 29, 2010.



Abbas

[jam2k94]

if some can clear the below points: -

Why the ILS system is only installed on runway 12 and not on runway30?

The ATC after miss approach on runway 30 asked the pilot of ED202 to go around and line in with runway 12 for landing as runway 12 is equipped with ILS. AS the weather was not good on the day of incident than why from the beginning the ATC had not instructed the pilot to use the runway 12 for the landing instead of runway 30.

I read somewhere that only the Lahore International Airport is equipped with CATII lading system. Only? I read that the Sialkot airport is also having the CATII landing facility but what about the other airports?

[Abbas Ali]

^ ILS is available for Islamabad Airport runway 30 not for runway 12.

AirBlue flight was attempting to land on runway 12.

According to news reports, the AirBlue aircraft would have encountered tailwind for landing on runway 30 at that time. Generally, aircraft make landing and take-off against the wind, according to aviation experts.

Apparently that's why AirBlue flight was directed to make visual landing on runway 12 against the wind. Runway 12 was active at the time of accident.

Abbas

[TAILWIND]

if some can clear the below points: -

Why the ILS system is only installed on runway 12 and not on runway30?

Because for the prevalent winds and amount of traffic ILS on 30 is enough. Its not abnormal to have ILS only on one side of the runway even for many major airports in the world.

The ATC after miss approach on runway 30 asked the pilot of ED202 to go around and line in with runway 12 for landing as runway 12 is equipped with ILS. AS the weather was not good on the day of incident than why from the beginning the ATC had not instructed the pilot to use the runway 12 for the landing instead of runway 30.

For IFR flights there are following main procedures to land on rwy 12 though there are others too listed on the approach charts.
ONE
Flights are vectored by islamabad radar from the western side in a right hand pattern passing over Golra Round About (right base 12) at 2900 ft amsl and are alligned for finals rwy 12 and then handed over to chaklala ATC for landing.
TWO
Flights are cleared by radar for 'ILS 30-Circle to land 12'. In that the flights are vectored down to 3900 ft AMSL and are aligned with LOCALISER 30. Once established on localiser, these are handed over to chaklala ATC. The flight continues approach in landing configuration till 200 feet. Thereafter they break off (NO Go Around) break off towards right (east) make a left hand pattern passing over shakarparian, F-9 park and align with the rwy 12 somewhere over sector G-11 for finals. Conditions being that these are not more than 5 nm away from the airfield and have the runway in sight all the time.
Please keep in mind that in both the cases explained above landing on rwy 12 is a planned procedure and not an impropmtu one. On the otherhand 'Missed approach', Go-aroúnd' and dumped landing are emergency or contigency procedures due poor visibility, obstruction on rwy or some technical reason. In such a scenario the flight usually makes another approach on the same runway or proceeds to the diversion airfield if the conditions have not improved which called for MAP, GA or dumped landing in the first place.

[Moin]

One would have to be pretty strong willed to be able to do what those rescuers had to do. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them fell sick and have nightmares after having to do what they do.

[Shahab]

Hi Tailwind

I assume you meant continue in landing configuration till 2000ft and then break off? so during the whole break off and circle the plane needs to maintain 2000ft until aligned with runway 12? Also is this 2000ft from AMSL which means effectively 500ft above ground or 3600ft AMSL (assuming runway elivation of 1600ft)

Another quick question for my info, do you always break right from runway 30 and do a counterclock wise circle or you can break left and then do a clock wise circle? Is MDA for Islamabad c


Regards

[Salman Haider]

Black Box of Air Blue Flight 202 found

ISLAMABAD, July 31 (APP): The extensive search for the Black Box of the Air Blue flight ED 202 has finally been concluded after it was found Saturday nearby the wracks of the crashed aircraft.

Rescue and investigation teams of the Capital Development Authority (CDA), the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and the Rescue 15 continued it search for the black box for four consecutive days. The Box was found today at 1:15pm under the debris of the aircraft. The Box has been handed over by the Capital Development Authority to the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) for further investigations.

This is now hoped that the exact cause of the air crash may be traced through the record of the Black Box.

Director General Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) Junaid Ameen has confirmed that the black box of Air Blue’s flight ED 202 which crashed on Thursday in Margalla Hills has been recovered from the crash site.

He added that cockpit voice recorder and black box of crashed have been recovered from Margalla Hills. The black box will be send to France or Germany to retrieve the data. The truth will be unveiled for public at the conclusion of the investigations, he concluded.

There were 152 people on board the ill-fated plane, which crashed just as it was getting ready to land in Islamabad. All passengers and crew on board were killed.

[Fanjet786]

Quote From Umer (The Native English Speaker):

learn experience crash of AirBlue A321 and bad weather. Next time anytime any bad weather then please never fly to bad weather until weather is clear. All Radar, Radio, EFIS, any machine CANNOT help and all pilot CANNOT see blank cloud like fog & steam. Never fly anywhere airport near hill and mountain like Kathmandu, Nada Fiji, Gevena, Zurich, Islamabad, Quetta, Gilgit, Skardu, Chihart, Sringhar, SaideSharif, Cape Town, most South America with hill mountain, most China with hill mountain, SAME danger like Phuket and Maldives and Hong Kong old airport and Hong Kong new airport. All every pilot said YES very danger in Hong Kong during bad weather. My old friend Capt.B.Ahmed said YES very DANGER land and take off in Islamabad during bad weather. I have been many times very bad weather land & take off in Islamabad, Hong Kong, Zurich. Capt.Pervaiz Iqbal Chaudrhy cannot see hill mountain and cockpit have NO warning signal that why cannot help anything any low ALT feet or something wrong. Hope Next time all airline get EXTRA lookafter takecare carefully and good health to fly inshallah good luck hopefully.

Umer 'For the Love of God"! Please 'Refrain' from using the Queens English! Or at least have the "Decency & Courtesy" of making Cohesive & Intelligible sentences.
Better yet, if you are not CONVERSANT (familiar) with a subject, in ths case Aviation (i.e. All Aspects Of Aviation) just do not write about stuff you have no Earthly Clue!!!!(A lot of us who are Professional Pilots know for a fact you DO NOT)

Further more, this is a Forum/Blog which provides an "excellent opportunity" for Folks from all walks of life. Be it, Professional Pilots who impart their wealth of experiences & knowledge or Beginners in Aviation or just Plain Aviation Enthusiasts & etc.etc., so all of us can learn & benefit.

My point is Umer, if you have nothing to 'say or contribute' then why make a 'Fool Out of yourself' by writing some Gibberish that nobody can comprehend & I am pretty sure you can't either.

Also, mentioning names of Pilots you happen to know does not make you an expert or a pilot. Cuz I know for a fact you neither one of them.

Lastly, let the investigation & analysis Of the DFDR (Digital Flight & Data Recorder) & CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) be analyzed (& completed).

R.I.P to the Departed Souls Of AirBlue (ABQ) Flight 202


Fly Safe Everybody!

[Yazi747]

I do not want to mention names but why people dont read the thread and start giving their opinions. As abbas mentioned that umer have some sort of problem then why dont people understand?????????? and for queens english no one is perfect. no one should point any finger on any one specially when its been clear that umer does have a problem. Umer keep it up mate and dont listen to the PERFECT people of Earth.

[nadimaj]

The minimum circling height for a visual approach onto Runway 12 is stated in the bottom right corner (Circling-To-Land) of the following chart (note chart is over 10 years old so data may be slightly out).



For a Category D aircraft, i.e. the A321, minimum circling altitude (above Mean Sea Level) is 2,510 ft. The height (above ground level) is 842ft. These are minimums, most pilots would add a hundred feet to that.


Edit: Thanks, the C was actually a typo :p

[R.F.]

A321 is a cat 'D' type and not 'C'......................

[TAILWIND]

Hi Tailwind

I assume you meant continue in landing configuration till 2000ft and then break off? so during the whole break off and circle the plane needs to maintain 2000ft until aligned with runway 12? Also is this 2000ft from AMSL which means effectively 500ft above ground or 3600ft AMSL (assuming runway elivation of 1600ft)

Sorry I missed one zero. and as pointed out by Abbas I further stand corrected; it is 2510 ft.

Another quick question for my info, do you always break right from runway 30 and do a counterclock wise circle or you can break left and then do a clock wise circle?

Good question....next question please. Dont know but mostly i have seen left hand patterns.
May be someone else can throw some more light on this.

[R.F.]

As far the Jepp plate goes there is no annotation prohibiting a break-off for a circling in either direction. The presidency and the associated areas are ' no go ' from time immemorial. The circling area defined by PANS-OPS for a Cat 'D' is 5.28 n.m from the threshold radius providing a obstacle clearance of 400 feet with a pre-determined wind of 25 knots during the maneuver which is essentially a part of an instrument approach with a visual maneuver and a circle to land.

The initial and intermediate portion of the approach is done with gear down and flaps in the intermediate configuration and not the full landing configuration which is selected during the final turn of the intended runway for landing.

The islamabad plate shows a circling height of 842 AGL if I've read it correctly which essentially means that the maneuver is executed around 800 ft, therefore what was witnessed by the people on the ground was ominous i.e. an airplane with wheels down at a low height.

Any time if visual references are lost a missed approach for the instrument approach runway is in order. Since the entire procedure is carried out below the MSA one needs to eye ball keeping the landing threshold in sight all the time. Reduced visibility and rain can compound the situation hence go-around remains an primary option during any stage of the approach.

However there remains a twist to this entire scenario and that is in the event of loss of visual references of the runway during the maneuver the missed approach has to be established for the instrument approach therefore loosing situation awareness at that brief instance can take you in the wrong direction. I'm not implying that this must have happened only stating what has been observed in similar situation which is infrequent but a plausible explanation.

Like stated earlier a professional, meticulous and detailed investigation shall reveal the tragic chain of events leading to this colossal loss of life and equipment.

[Shahab]

Many thanks for your informative replies guys.

[stylo4444]

Wow, some of you people need to move on with the Umer comments. I remember awhile ago when I was new to the forums, I was confused as to why he was posting in the way he was. It was explained to me, a simple apology was given and there you go...time to move on. Let's talk more about this tragedy rather than Umer, he's contributing and by continuing to apologize to him or make a big deal out of the way he talks...you're not contributing.

These conspiracy theories are troubling, why does everything always seem to be some sort of conspiracy? I'm especially enjoying the thoughts that the pilot turned out to be crazy and then fly his jetliner with 150+ passengers into the hills...yes, there we go. So taking off from Karachi...he didn't have these thoughts...after the 2 hour flight and a missed approach, he then decided that there are the hills, let me just fly into them?

Be serious.