AirBlue jet down in Islamabad

[jameel.ashraf3]

worth to read on this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-10788612

[jameel.ashraf3]

METAR for Crash time

oprn 280600z 05016kt 4000 Ra Few01st0 Sct030 Ovc100 Few030tcu 25/24 Q1006.8
oprn 280500z 09018kt 3500 Ra Sct010 Sct030 Ovc100 Few030 25/24 Q1006.9
oprn 280400z 05016kt 3500 Sct010 Sct030 Bkn100 Few030tcu 29/24 1006.7

[jameel.ashraf3]

Good to always read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airblue_Flight_202

[Fateh]

May the souls of the departed rest in peace and may Allah grant saber to their loved ones.Ameen.

[mhansari]

Here are two quotes from the article "A321 Crash points to Bigger Problems" in today's Express Tribune. Its one of the better articles on the subject, specially in terms of information:

The Airblue aircraft, an A321, with 152 passengers and crew onboard, was cleared to land at Islamabad airport’s Runway 30. It was drizzling, with low clouds, however the visibility was over 3,500 metres with clear visual ground contact of over 1,000 feet above ground at the airport, but the wind was reported high. Three aircraft, including the ill-fated A321, were inbound for Islamabad. Two PIA flights were diverted, but the A321 made a ‘Missed Approach’ at Runway 30, which means instead of deciding against landing at the airport, the pilot executes a ‘Go Around’, which is similar to takeoff with the same high engine power and flaps selection.

The procedure for a ‘Missed Approach’ at Runway 30 is to climb straight out and turn, heading 240 at 2.5 nautical miles on the DME with further climb to 9,000 feet. In this case, for unknown reasons the pilot did not make the mandatory turn and instead continued to fly straight out and hit the Margalla Hills adjacent to Sector F6/1 which is located over six nautical miles from Runway 30, where the ‘Missed Approach’ procedure was made. The A320 FMC system requires the pilot to give a command to the computer to execute a ‘Go Around’, failing which the aircraft will proceed on the last heading selected.

Second quote:

Investigations will also track medical records of the captain and his two co-pilots. Their recent flying experience and whether they were meeting the minimum necessary rest requirements prior to operating the flight. There are also restrictions on weekly and monthly flight hours, which airlines and their pilots are required to strictly abide by.

Investigations conducted by this scribe reveal that Capt Pervaiz Iqbal Chaudhry had been grounded about two months back and was admitted to the Aga Khan Hospital. He had uncontrollable diabetes, hypertension and cardiac problems. He was a very religious man and it could be possible that he did not rest well before the flight because of Shab-e-Barat.

If you wish to read the full text, you can find it at: http://tribune.com.pk/story/32259/a321- ... -problems/

I'm not suggesting that we draw any premature conclusions here, but at least one key factor is now clear. For some reason, the Captain did not make that turn, in spite of being warned twice by the ATC. Could they have initiated the go-around without giving the command to the Flight Management Computer, resulting in the aircraft flying on the last heading selected (which I'm guessing would be the runway heading)? If they suffered some kind of equipment failure - an electronic blackout, loss of hydraulics etc, surely they would have communicated the same to the ATC?

Another thing that confuses me:

Control tower’s first warning: You are getting away from the runway.
Pilot’s response: We can see the runway.
If they were on a go-around, the runway would be behind them... In that light, the Pilot's response makes no sense

Control tower’s second warning: Turn to your left immediately, you are heading towards Margalla Hills.
Pilot’s response: We can see that.
Again, the response makes no sense. There's no acknowledgement of the ATC's instruction or any explanation of their not complying to it.

This transcript is taken from http://tribune.com.pk/story/31981/caa-s ... disclosed/

[Pineapple]

I Agree with you booming bomber,He would have flown to Islamabad around 20000 times before today,and he wud definetly had idea how high are the Margalla hills .And I also eard that they were making a correct approach and were asked to GO-AROUND,for some reason and were compelled to follow some unusual routes.I will never ever accept that that Experienced pilot would make such a silly mistake and risk the lives of so many people.Look at his Photo,He looks so much Graceful mashALLAH...


SOMETHING MUST WENT WRONG.AND BLACK BOX WILL NEVER BE FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is what always happen in PAKISTAN..

Oh phuleeeez....khuda kay liye

Get over that mentality everything that happens in Pakistan is a conspiracy/controversy.

Why does every common man blames the govt or authorities? And some clandestine operations, some hidden agenda. I know govt is not the best but what about the responsibility of citizens of Pakistan. Are you guys farishtay and govt a shaitaan? [-o<

[irfan khan]

Guys whole night i was thinking about this incident so many questions were in my mind why ATC have asked to GO AROUND when pilot is making normal landing and it was few secs away second when pilot have gone for GO AROUND then why he take right instead of left according to the controller then M.D Ejaz Haroon said it was total Pilots fault because if ATC said to GO AROUND every pilot have to go around till 5 miles and airblue pilot has gone till 8 miles why?
http://www.dailypak.com/epaper/2010/Jul ... /fp-9.html
third one of the eye witness said when i have looked at airblue aircraft it was tilt to the left and trying to gain some altitude during the action he said i saw the aircraft was continually loosing altitude dont know why and suddenly it was disappeared in clouds after 1 sec he heard big boom noise and he also mentioned that there was no rain on that time you can say it was little drizzling so after so many evidence i thought maybe maybe there was some kind of instrumental or navigational problem in the aircraft that pilot knows very well why i am saying this because ATC controller said i told pilot that he is going towards Margala Hills and pilot replied yes I know so maybe aircraft was loosing sudden altitude and pilot wants to take aircraft away from the residential Area and crash there or take his chance in the empty area this is what i think but we have to wait till final investigation but guys Farley i dont think so there was some kind of serious investigation will start we all know what happened in previous matters so hope for the best will come out actual incident will come out.

what you guys will think please reply?

[Salman Haider]

[Salman Haider]

[raihans]

Off topic:

ILWIIR

Kindly requested to NOT to use any abbreviations for Quranic phrases. Thank you for your understanding.

[Abbas Ali]

I was looking at some of my old pics from my trips to Isb and one of them was on an ED flight which was also a 7am flight and we landed in Isb in the rain and we also approached the airport from the North and did 2 go-arounds but at no time did we come close to the Margalla Hills. As a matter of fact I took a photo of the Isb Airport apron area which showed AP-BID and a BA 777 parked on the ramp. I posted those pics here on the forum as well. Abbas might remember which thread it was. I cannot recall the exact date but AP-BID had just recently been delivered to PIA and Shaheen had leased an A310 from Saga airlines of Turkey which I also took a pic of. Abbas can you find that thread?

Here it is.

Topic: KHI-ISB-KHI with ED (Long) (Posted on April 7, 2008)

Abbas

[TAILWIND]

Here are two quotes from the article "A321 Crash points to Bigger Problems" in today's Express Tribune. Its one of the better articles on the subject, specially in terms of information:

The Airblue aircraft, an A321, with 152 passengers and crew onboard, was cleared to land at Islamabad airport’s Runway 30. It was drizzling, with low clouds, however the visibility was over 3,500 metres with clear visual ground contact of over 1,000 feet above ground at the airport, but the wind was reported high. Three aircraft, including the ill-fated A321, were inbound for Islamabad. Two PIA flights were diverted, but the A321 made a ‘Missed Approach’ at Runway 30, which means instead of deciding against landing at the airport, the pilot executes a ‘Go Around’, which is similar to takeoff with the same high engine power and flaps selection.

Rubbish analysis by Tribune
The aircraft never executed a missed approad or go around (both are different things btw). It was cleared for 'ILS 30 approach-circle to land 12'.

The procedure for a ‘Missed Approach’ at Runway 30 is to climb straight out and turn, heading 240 at 2.5 nautical miles on the DME with further climb to 9,000 feet. In this case, for unknown reasons the pilot did not make the mandatory turn and instead continued to fly straight out and hit the Margalla Hills adjacent to Sector F6/1 which is located over six nautical miles from Runway 30, where the ‘Missed Approach’ procedure was made. The A320 FMC system requires the pilot to give a command to the computer to execute a ‘Go Around’, failing which the aircraft will proceed on the last heading selected.[/b]

All this becomes irrelevant as the aircraft was not executing missed approach or Go around. It simply went too far north in a circle to land maneouvre for runway 12.
The question is why.?
As reported the clouds were very low at the time of accident, even half of margalla hills were covered till half. Most probably the aircraft entered clouds during north bound leg of circle to land manouvre and then drifted north during a WIDER turn and engaged terrain.
Mind you unlike ILS approach or enroute cruise, there is no accurate navigation guidance in this phase of visual appraoch. DME gives you an indication how far you are from the airfield yet in this phase of flight involving higher crew workload and anxiety due to clouds and lost ground contact at lower altitude, drifting wide in a turn is not very unusual or unlikely.
As far as highly experienced pilot is concerned mind you all in airlines the captains are never novices, they are highly experienced professionals.

[Abbas Ali]

Does Airbus A321 have Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) and Flight Data Recorder (FDR) in single unit ? Or does this aircraft have separate CVR and FDR placed in aircraft tail section ?

Both CVR and FDR are commonly known as 'Black Box'.

In today's (July 29) edition of Urdu daily 'Jinnah' - www.dailyjinnah.com - in news reports about AirBlue accident there's this picture and photo caption claims 'black box' recovered from the crashed aircraft.



Does it mean the aircraft had separate CVR and FDR units and one of them has been recovered and search for the other one is going on ?

Abbas

[jameel.ashraf3]

Ok I agree with you, but i would like to make Correction,

Initially pilot tried to land on Runway 12 Visually (City Side) but couldn't maintain Visual contact so he did Go-Around,

Second Attempt was made by Flying ILS (Instrument Landing System) Runway 30 to break visual for a circling approach for Runway 12. Which means He had to make a LEFT HAND CIRCUIT to land on 12, so he joined Downwind for Runway 12 which is towards Margalla and drifted far behind limits. YOu must stay within 7 DME as OPR227 (Restricted area from Ground to FL090) Here is some info about OPRN(Islamabad) ILS Runway 30.

Aerodrome Elevation : 1668 feet (Height Related to Threshold Runway 30 is 1656 feet)
There is a DME ARC of 10 Nautical miles and there are alot of obstacles in it but the biggest i can see is 2864 Feet(Antenna) on Radial of 175 Degree Magnetic North. Also just outside 10DME there is OPR 213 Islamabad/Chaklala Flying Club Area and PAF Helicopter Flying Area Ground -FL140. and there is another Obstacle of 3947 Feet.

ILS Outer Marker is 8nm but you must stay within 5nm towards North to avoid obstacles and Mountains and No Go Areas.

Minimum Sector Altitude within 25nm is 9500 and you are NOT allow to descend unless you are in Holden Pattern and then you can descend IN HOLDEN Pattern to an altitude of 7700 feet.

Missed Approach Procedure is : AFTER Crossing VOR when 2.5 DME turn left climb to 9500 feet Above Mean Sea Level outbound on Radial 240 and Contact ATC.

For Straight in approach - Category A, B, C & D - Minimum Descent Altitude for ILS CAT I is 1965 Feet (309').
For Circling Approach - Category A & B is 2410 Feet (754') and for Category C & D is 2510 Feet (854').

METAR for time of Accident
OPRN 280600z 05016kt 4000 Ra Few01st0 Sct030 Ovc100 Few030tcu 25/24 Q1006.8
OPRN 280500z 09018kt 3500 Ra Sct010 Sct030 Ovc100 Few030 25/24 Q1006.9
OPRN 280400z 05016kt 3500 Sct010 Sct030 Bkn100 Few030tcu 29/24 1006.7

Now What I THINK is (I may be wrong),
Pilot must have been diverted to Lahore as PK300 did as advised by ATC
Must have made Immediate Turn to Left to get closer again towards Runway. Ofcourse we do see runway at one side but Pilot according to Audio ATC never said He have Margella in sight. He said Runway in sight. Its common in Human error in flying (i experienced with students) when you ask them to do something they concentrate on one side but forget about other side.. you can say may be blind spot.. .. so I GUESS concentration more on runway not on Margalla, but when did may be on Second warning it was too late. I saw picture of the area before crash Mountain Peaks were hidden in thick Fog and Low clouds.
Lastly but most importantly, one of my Close friend on good place in CAA advised me that there was a problem between ATC TOWER and CHERAT Control. Cherat wanted aircraft back to him as it was drifting away from Airport so that he can take him out but ATC TOWER denied to give it back to him and hence advise at his OWN to aircraft and got acknowledgment. But you don't get enough time to talk when someone is flying.

Also Pilot did a great job by putting aircraft into the mountains rather than putting on Populated Area to avoid more causality. People are ignoring this fact. Captain was very much full of experience and then sensed something wrong. Also Ground Witnesses told aircraft was out of balance which indicated they already were aware that they are in big shit and they are flying close or in mountains.

Also i have seen people talking about Ground Proximity Warning System (GPWS) please keep in mind it doesn't give warning if aircraft was in Landing configuration, there is another device EGPWS for this purpose. We'll get to know from FDR and CVR. Hope they make and publish report.

NOTE: Above are my views and thoughts, not everyone or anyone has to agree with them. I prefer CAA or Airbus or NTSB reports to believe, as i am not Expert.

Thank you.

[thunderfalcon]

It Had to happern...
First of all may Allah almighty rest the departed souls in heaven.
Second all these lives has been taken by Mr Shahid Khaqan Abbasi. Will somebody advise him tohire Pilots on merit and not on Sifarish!Most of his Pilot are from the PAF and it is also knmown as extension of No 6 Squadron. I talked to a the Chief Pilot Training and he was alsocribbing that the Pilots inducted (Mostly fighter Pilots) have problems learning and understanding the jeppese. He told me also that this is no solution of stoping flights on one route on which two accidbnts happened(KHI-QTA).Just because they had one hard landing and one tailhit. They are operating with top of line aircraft and narrow body wjhereas PIA operates also Wide body on this route and allhamdolillah never had some mishap like Airblue. They should have got to the cause(root) of the accident instaeding slashing the route from their map. The rtoute cause was nonprofessionalism in Pilots inducted from the fighter cadre of the PAF. In this accident the first officer was on his second flight and was the only pilot inducted by airblue in this year on the sifarish of Mr Shaukat Aziz(ex Premier).He had very less experience and got into this type of weather. What help was he to the Capt?
Mr Shahid Khaqan Abbasi keep on colouring your hand with Blood of innocent people by inducting people on sifarish only.