Pakistan's IL-78 Refueling aircraft

[yousaf465]

I want to know about whether the hose-and-drogue refueling system is better than the other for Pakistan Air Force
Here are few relevant links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_refueling and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-78. Also what about buddy refuelling, any need of it.

[Abbas Ali]

The F-16s are fitted with receptacle for receiving fuel from boom-equipped aerial refueling tanker. PAF does not have boom-equipped tanker as far as I know.

Apparently the Ilyushin Il-78 Midas, acquired by PAF according to some reports, is equipped with drogue for refueling aircraft fitted with probe. I've heard about a number of Mirages in PAF recently equipped with probe for aerial refueling from drogue-equipped Il-78 Midas but haven't been able to confirm this info from any reliable news source or photos.

[Usman]

[Abbas Ali]

Fantastic Photos

Thank you Usman for sharing.

[yousaf465]

You have done the job really. Great Pics from where did you got them ? =D> .

Here is a comparison for both systems. And also this could be helpful

Compatibility issues

The probe-and drogue system is not compatible with flying boom equipment, creating a problem for military planners where mixed forces are involved. For this reason (as well as other advantages of probe/drogue systems), the USAF has considered converting boom systems to probe-and-drogue.


Advantages of probe and drogue
Simpler/cheaper tanker design.
The probe-and-drogue method allows aircraft not originally designed as tankers to be converted by attaching a refueling pod.
Tankers can be equipped with multipoint hose-and-drogue systems allowing two (or more) aircraft to refuel simultaneously from the same tanker, reducing time spent by as much as 75% for a four aircraft strike package.[10] Multiple refueling points also offers redundancy over the single boom system.
Can be used to refuel properly-equipped helicopters, such as the MH-53E Sea Dragon.
No boom operator is needed for the refueling as the drogue can be operated by the pilot of the tanker.


Disadvantages of probe and drogue
The lower flow rates (1,500–2,000lbs/min)[11] available from the lower pressure and limited diameter of the hose used in the probe-and-drogue system result in longer refueling times compared to the flying boom for larger aircraft.
Drogue subject to turbulence and aerodynamic forces (bow wave) of approaching aircraft.
Drogue subject to damage by poor receiver technique, making further refueling difficult or impossible.
Precise placement of the probe into the drogue by the receiver aircraft pilot precludes large receiver aircraft installation.
Drogue only equipped tankers cannot be easily fitted with boom systems.
The probe is generally located in the front of the refueling plane, presenting several problems: sensitive avionics equipment (pitot static and angle of attack probes, etc.), can easily be damaged by the drogue, and FOD, including fuel or probe/droge parts can be ingested into the plane's engines.


Advantages of boom and receptacle
Higher fuel flow rates (up to 1000 US gallons/6,000 lbs per minute for the KC-135 tanker) can be achieved with the large diameter of the pipe in the flying boom, resulting in much less time required to refuel compared to the smaller diameter required of a flexible hose system. Unlike bombers and other large aircraft, however, fighter aircraft can only ‘’accept’’ fuel at 1000-3000 lbs per minute and cannot use the boom’s maximum flow rate. The flying boom, therefore, loses its primary advantage over the hose-and-drogue system when refueling fighter aircraft[6] and requires a reduction in refueling pressure when servicing these aircraft.[7]
The boom method eliminates the requirement for the (often very large and less maneuverable) receiver aircraft pilot to precisely fly a probe into a drogue, something that is easily performed by fighter-sized aircraft, but would be extremely challenging even for the best pilot in a larger aircraft.
A tanker with a flying boom can be converted in the field to accommodate probe-equipped aircraft, if necessary.


Disadvantages of boom and receptacle
The cost to train and employ the "boomer"—1990s estimates place the cost to train a boom operator at nearly $1,000,000.[citation needed]
Incompatibility with probe and drogue systems, which are prevalent on US Navy, and most non-US aircraft.
Complexity of tanker design.
Only one receiver aircraft can refuel at a time.
Cannot be used to refuel most helicopters.
Cannot be installed on carrier based aircraft.

[kamalla]

Great job Usman. Glad to see PAF is upgrading its existing aircraft to have aerial refueling capabilities.

Btw, is that a Mirage 5 or Mirage III? Which other existing PAF aircraft are expected to get this upgrade? I assume the JF-17 being built in Pakistan will be fitted with aerial refueling capabilities?

[Abbas Ali]

Btw, is that a Mirage 5 or Mirage III?

That's Mirage III.

Mirage V has longer and slim nose.

[Salman Haider]

Thank you Usman Shabir for sharing Gorgeous photos!

[riz]

whoa............... amazing pics....
so many thnx for the share.

[yousaf465]

This is what I call upgrading to our own specifications. this will help with our development of jf-17 and any future aircraft.

[yousaf465]

It's a tanker/transport and not the pure tanker version of the Midas.

[raihans]

nice pictures, thanks for sharing....

so when is the 1st test for air-to-air fueling is going to be conducted? and we expect some pics of that milestone as well, Insha'Allah

[yousaf465]

Isn't our fuel pipe too close to engine intake see this photo of Mirage 2000

[TAILWIND]

Btw, is that a Mirage 5 or Mirage III?

That's Mirage III.

Mirage V has longer and slim nose.

There are three types of noses on PAF Mirage fleet. The one shown in the pics above, there is one which is blunt on the tip having some optical sensors, possibly recconiasance cameras, the third one is almost same like the one shown above, but the pitot probe orginates from a little below the tip. Can anyone explain the difference and versions?

[yousaf465]

This system was brought form France I think. Pakistan is using Old russian UPAZ refuelling pod IL-78. http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Pak ... aft-05191/ And here are photos of this systems http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-PLA-Tanker-Programs.html

Mirage-III and Mirage-V photos http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airf ... rage3.html