AirBlue jet down in Islamabad

[newflyer]

The report just shows the criminal negligence at CAA. It is full of PAF kachra and has caused the death of hundreds of people in a span of less than two years. The SIB is also a part of CAA and a PAF guy is at the helm. Just shows the value the govt places on aviation safety and human lives.

I also heard on TV that the traffic controller (a PAF trash nonetheless) was Mukhtar during both the Air Blue and Bhoja Air crash. How come he continued controlling the flights after one huge crash and caused another one? My only request would be to the heirs to sue the asses of everyone involved as otherwise things will remain the same.

[Abbas Ali]

Another report in 'DAWN' newspaper.

Airblue plane crash: Control tower staff, too, culpable, PHC told

Waseem Ahmad Shah

PESHAWAR, March 28: A fresh report submitted to the Peshawar High Court on Thursday regarding the 2010 Airblue plane crash for the first time highlights some faults on the part of Air Traffic System, saying the duty controller at Islamabad Control Tower was the most junior officer in the shift and had too little experience to handle such complex situation.

The report said the duty controller being from Pakistan Air Force at Benazir Bhutto International Airport (BBIA) Tower was not qualified as per International Civil Aviation Organisation SARPs (standard and recommended practices) to handle civil traffic and he did not possess the require qualification like completion of ICAO Basic Course from any ICAO recognised institute.

It said the duty controller had not undergone on job training under the supervision of the qualified civil controller.

A 25-page summary of the report compiled by president of Safety Investigation Board of Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) Air Commodore M Abdul Basit was submitted to a bench comprising Chief Justice Dost Mohammad Khan and Justice Syed Afsar Shah by the senior legal adviser of the authority, Obaidur Rehman Abbasi.

Initially when a report regarding the inquiry conducted by SIB of CAA was submitted to the high court in Dec 2011, the major cause of the plane crash, which had left all 152 people on board dead, was given as misjudgments by the captain of the plane and inclement weather.

However, the court had expressed reservations over the said report and ordered to conduct inquiry through international experts.

During that inquiry by international experts, it came to light that certain facts were ignored in the earlier inquiry following which the court had directed CAA to submit another report to the court in light of the findings of the international experts. The bench fixed April 30 for next hearing with the direction to Mr Abdul Basit and Mr Abbasi to submit the recommendations given
by SIB in light of these findings to avoid such accidents in future.

The bench was hearing a writ petition filed by former MNA Marvi Memon on behalf of the families of dead passengers.

Mr Abbasi said he had earlier informed the court that CAA would not hide anything from the court and the present report submitted by them fulfilled their commitment.

The report said BBIA was jointly used by military and civil aircraft. Aerodrome control service is provided by PAF and radar control service by CAA in their respective areas.

The final conclusion of the report states: “Airblue crash has been finalised as a case of Controlled Flight Into Terrain (CFIT) in which aircrew failed to display superior judgment and professional skills in a self-created unsafe environment in their pursuit to land in inclement weather they committed serious violations of procedures and breaches of flying disciplines, which put the aircraft in an unsafe condition over dangerous terrain at low altitude.

“However, the second line of defence on ground i.e. ATS (both radar and ATC tower), which could have brought the aircraft out of this situation by rendering assistance, also failed to avert CFIT due to lack of knowledge, training and ambiguous procedures in the type of scenario the aircraft was flying in last phase of flight.”

The report said the radar controller did not pass current deteriorated weather condition to flight ABQ-202 (Airblue flight) before clearing the plane for approaching. Furthermore, the radar controller did not pass difficulties faced by the preceding landing aircraft to flight ABQ-202.

“Tower controller took the situation in a casual way and did not take necessary action on losing visual contact with flight ABQ-202,” the inquiry report said, adding that a senior tower controller at the tower, instead of taking over the control of air traffic, let the junior controller continue handling aerodrome traffic in severe inclement weather conditions.

The investigation ruled that no evidence was found for any internal or external sabotage, incapacitation of the aircraft systems, in-flight fire, bird strike or structural fatigue.

It, however, said the captain behaviour towards the flying officer was harsh, snobbish and contrary to establish norms.

Source: DAWN

Abbas

[TAILWIND]

The report just shows the criminal negligence at CAA. It is full of PAF kachra and has caused the death of hundreds of people in a span of less than two years. The SIB is also a part of CAA and a PAF guy is at the helm. Just shows the value the govt places on aviation safety and human lives.

I also heard on TV that the traffic controller (a PAF trash nonetheless) was Mukhtar during both the Air Blue and Bhoja Air crash. How come he continued controlling the flights after one huge crash and caused another one? My only request would be to the heirs to sue the asses of everyone involved as otherwise things will remain the same.

True to the screen name, your post reveals your lack of knowledge and un-called for venom against PAF controllers. If you had known the basics of a circle to land approach, you would know that since breaking off from the localizer, the repsonsibility to maintain groung contact, terrain clearance and mendatory distance from the rwy rest solely on pilots shoulders. At any time any of the conditions are not met, the pilot is 'mandated' to terminate approach and initiate missed approach. The sequence of events in the last few minutes of the crash reveals a complete lack of situational awareness by the crew. The report, initial and revised (so-called) does not pin point exact errors ATC has committed, just made an un warranted remark that military controllers donot know how to handle civilian flights.
Besides improving your aviation knowldge, I would find it neccessary to advise you to refrain from referring to human anatomy in public forums.

[newflyer]

The report just shows the criminal negligence at CAA. It is full of PAF kachra and has caused the death of hundreds of people in a span of less than two years. The SIB is also a part of CAA and a PAF guy is at the helm. Just shows the value the govt places on aviation safety and human lives.

I also heard on TV that the traffic controller (a PAF trash nonetheless) was Mukhtar during both the Air Blue and Bhoja Air crash. How come he continued controlling the flights after one huge crash and caused another one? My only request would be to the heirs to sue the asses of everyone involved as otherwise things will remain the same.

True to the screen name, your post reveals your lack of knowledge and un-called for venom against PAF controllers. If you had known the basics of a circle to land approach, you would know that since breaking off from the localizer, the repsonsibility to maintain groung contact, terrain clearance and mendatory distance from the rwy rest solely on pilots shoulders. At any time any of the conditions are not met, the pilot is 'mandated' to terminate approach and initiate missed approach. The sequence of events in the last few minutes of the crash reveals a complete lack of situational awareness by the crew. The report, initial and revised (so-called) does not pin point exact errors ATC has committed, just made an un warranted remark that military controllers donot know how to handle civilian flights.
Besides improving your aviation knowldge, I would find it neccessary to advise you to refrain from referring to human anatomy in public forums.

Reality hit hard, eh? And what do you mean by 'so-called' when referring to the revised report? Apparently, you are right and international experts are wrong who have decades of experience in investigating hundreds of air disasters. The remark was not 'unwarranted' but very well justified and ICAO found major flaws in CAA conduct.

And I have every right to express my opinion and no one can stop me from doing that. I will say it again that PAF trash has to be cleaned from CAA and an independent SIB has to be formed that should conform to ICAO rules and regulations.

[jam2k94]

Tailwind calm down. Its a forum where every one have the right to express what he think. The admin only have the right to restrict some one from posting.

In this same thread I write that CAA is trying save some one. Now CAA is giving the same report.

[TAILWIND]

Tailwind calm down. Its a forum where every one have the right to express what he think. The admin only have the right to restrict some one from posting..

I support everyones right to share thier opinion. My only objection is once someone crosses the limits of decency. Addressing a whole community as 'trash, kachra' and using dirty slangs on a public forum should never accepted as freedom of expression.

[shoaib484]

Never understood why people add dirty slangs in their sentences to give weight to their "expressions", it does nothing but spoils a good discussion/argument. Admin should have a look into this...

[Abbas Ali]

The re-investigation report should also be made available on Pakistan CAA website.

Btw, here's 'Express Tribune' report.

Airblue crash re-investigation: ATC staff failed to navigate plane to safety, reveals CAA report

March 29, 2013

PESHAWAR: The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) admitted on Thursday for the first time that the pilot and the air traffic control staff were responsible for the 2010 Air Blue crash.

In the re-investigation report of the crash submitted to the Peshawar High Court (PHC), CAA maintained that responsibility for the incident also lay with the air traffic control staff for failing to guide the aircraft out of the crisis. It revealed that the air traffic controller guiding Airblue flight ED202 was inexperienced and as such was unable to discharge his duty.

“Weather forecasts (at the time of the flight) indicated rain, poor visibility and low clouds around the airport. The information regarding the prevalent weather and the type of approach on arrival was in the knowledge of aircrew,” the report submitted before the court reads. It adds that the flight captain violated the prescribed flight discipline for the weather conditions and placed the aircraft in an unsafe situation.

“The air traffic services (both the radar and the control tower), which could have helped the flight out of this situation, also failed to avert a ‘controlled flight into terrain’ (CFIT) due to lack of knowledge and training, and ambiguous procedures in the sort of scenario the aircraft was flying in during the last phase of the flight,” the report further notes.

CAA legal counsel Obaidur Rehman Abbasi, meanwhile, told the bench they will present their recommendations on safety measures at the next hearing, after which the hearing was adjourned.

The summary of the re-investigation report was submitted in response to PHC’s directives issued on February 19. In the previous hearing, the CAA had produced the transcript of the Cockpit Voice Recorder recovered from the crash site. The bench subsequently asked Safety Investigation Board president Air Commodore Muhammad Abdul Basit to summarise the transcript in simple terms due to technical jargon.

Airblue flight ED202, bound for Islamabad, crashed into the Margalla Hills on July 28, 2010, killing all passengers and flight crew on-board.

On November 9, 2012, investigation experts of the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) completed their reinvestigation into the Airblue crash and concluded, among other things, that aviation body’s initial investigation report into the incident lacked vital information. The information missing from CAA’s report, according to ICAO experts, included the details on the weather conditions during the flight and the maintenance of navigational aids. The ICAO report also noted that while communication between the flight and the air traffic controllers was mentioned, no section in the final report was dedicated to it.

The foreign experts also maintained that the draft of the first report had more details, but claimed they were omitted after it was reviewed by the CAA director general in March, 2011. They, as such, expressed concern over the possibility of a conflict of interest.

Source: tribune.com.pk

Abbas

[Guru]

The report just shows the criminal negligence at CAA. It is full of PAF kachra and has caused the death of hundreds of people in a span of less than two years. The SIB is also a part of CAA and a PAF guy is at the helm. Just shows the value the govt places on aviation safety and human lives.

I also heard on TV that the traffic controller (a PAF trash nonetheless) was Mukhtar during both the Air Blue and Bhoja Air crash. How come he continued controlling the flights after one huge crash and caused another one? My only request would be to the heirs to sue the asses of everyone involved as otherwise things will remain the same.

True to the screen name, your post reveals your lack of knowledge and un-called for venom against PAF controllers. If you had known the basics of a circle to land approach, you would know that since breaking off from the localizer, the repsonsibility to maintain groung contact, terrain clearance and mendatory distance from the rwy rest solely on pilots shoulders. At any time any of the conditions are not met, the pilot is 'mandated' to terminate approach and initiate missed approach. The sequence of events in the last few minutes of the crash reveals a complete lack of situational awareness by the crew. The report, initial and revised (so-called) does not pin point exact errors ATC has committed, just made an un warranted remark that military controllers donot know how to handle civilian flights.
Besides improving your aviation knowldge, I would find it neccessary to advise you to refrain from referring to human anatomy in public forums.

Reality hit hard, eh? And what do you mean by 'so-called' when referring to the revised report? Apparently, you are right and international experts are wrong who have decades of experience in investigating hundreds of air disasters. The remark was not 'unwarranted' but very well justified and ICAO found major flaws in CAA conduct.

And I have every right to express my opinion and no one can stop me from doing that. I will say it again that PAF trash has to be cleaned from CAA and an independent SIB has to be formed that should conform to ICAO rules and regulations.

Hi New flyer,

I have no idea how new are you in this business but I am a relatively old flyer. Let me just inform you that nobody is born wearing a PAF/military uniform. The alleged "Kachra" consists of your own brothers/sisters and friends who are a product of Pakistan.
Generalized statements, whimsical labeling and unsolicited emotional outbursts are not the accepted norm in civil societies/public forums. If you have a solid argument, you should be able to express yourself with conviction and won't be required to entertain us with your erratic perceptions.

Take care

[newflyer]

The re-investigation report should also be made available on Pakistan CAA website.

Btw, here's 'Express Tribune' report.

Airblue crash re-investigation: ATC staff failed to navigate plane to safety, reveals CAA report

March 29, 2013

PESHAWAR: The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) admitted on Thursday for the first time that the pilot and the air traffic control staff were responsible for the 2010 Air Blue crash.

In the re-investigation report of the crash submitted to the Peshawar High Court (PHC), CAA maintained that responsibility for the incident also lay with the air traffic control staff for failing to guide the aircraft out of the crisis. It revealed that the air traffic controller guiding Airblue flight ED202 was inexperienced and as such was unable to discharge his duty.

“Weather forecasts (at the time of the flight) indicated rain, poor visibility and low clouds around the airport. The information regarding the prevalent weather and the type of approach on arrival was in the knowledge of aircrew,” the report submitted before the court reads. It adds that the flight captain violated the prescribed flight discipline for the weather conditions and placed the aircraft in an unsafe situation.

“The air traffic services (both the radar and the control tower), which could have helped the flight out of this situation, also failed to avert a ‘controlled flight into terrain’ (CFIT) due to lack of knowledge and training, and ambiguous procedures in the sort of scenario the aircraft was flying in during the last phase of the flight,” the report further notes.

CAA legal counsel Obaidur Rehman Abbasi, meanwhile, told the bench they will present their recommendations on safety measures at the next hearing, after which the hearing was adjourned.

The summary of the re-investigation report was submitted in response to PHC’s directives issued on February 19. In the previous hearing, the CAA had produced the transcript of the Cockpit Voice Recorder recovered from the crash site. The bench subsequently asked Safety Investigation Board president Air Commodore Muhammad Abdul Basit to summarise the transcript in simple terms due to technical jargon.

Airblue flight ED202, bound for Islamabad, crashed into the Margalla Hills on July 28, 2010, killing all passengers and flight crew on-board.

On November 9, 2012, investigation experts of the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) completed their reinvestigation into the Airblue crash and concluded, among other things, that aviation body’s initial investigation report into the incident lacked vital information. The information missing from CAA’s report, according to ICAO experts, included the details on the weather conditions during the flight and the maintenance of navigational aids. The ICAO report also noted that while communication between the flight and the air traffic controllers was mentioned, no section in the final report was dedicated to it.

The foreign experts also maintained that the draft of the first report had more details, but claimed they were omitted after it was reviewed by the CAA director general in March, 2011. They, as such, expressed concern over the possibility of a conflict of interest.

Source: tribune.com.pk

Abbas

The last paragraph just reinforces my earlier statements.

[newflyer]

Hi New flyer,

I have no idea how new are you in this business but I am a relatively old flyer. Let me just inform you that nobody is born wearing a PAF/military uniform. The alleged "Kachra" consists of your own brothers/sisters and friends who are a product of Pakistan.
Generalized statements, whimsical labeling and unsolicited emotional outbursts are not the accepted norm in civil societies/public forums. If you have a solid argument, you should be able to express yourself with conviction and won't be required to entertain us with your erratic perceptions.

Take care

I made a very solid statement based on the revised report, which also points fingers at CAA besides blaming the pilot. Enough said.

[Guru]

Hi New flyer,

I have no idea how new are you in this business but I am a relatively old flyer. Let me just inform you that nobody is born wearing a PAF/military uniform. The alleged "Kachra" consists of your own brothers/sisters and friends who are a product of Pakistan.
Generalized statements, whimsical labeling and unsolicited emotional outbursts are not the accepted norm in civil societies/public forums. If you have a solid argument, you should be able to express yourself with conviction and won't be required to entertain us with your erratic perceptions.

Take care

I made a very solid statement based on the revised report, which also points fingers at CAA besides blaming the pilot. Enough said.

The point in question is not your statement, it is your expression. Where you have every right to state whatever you want, the bounds of ethics, morality, civility and decency ought to be respected. Enough explained.

[TAILWIND]

....The point in question is not your statement, it is your expression. Where you have every right to state whatever you want, the bounds of ethics, morality, civility and decency ought to be respected. Enough explained.

Cant agree more.....

[Abbas Ali]

According to Peshawar High Court (PHC) decision announced today, AirBlue accident happened because of following reasons:

* Pilot error/negligence.
* Fatigued/tired pilot.
* Instructions not received from air traffic controller.

Abbas

[raihans]

how this decision will impact on the compensations being given by Airblue & GOP towards the victim's families