Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore

[qjfunk]

The news report above does say that aircraft was airworthy. Does it mean that it was pilot error as I read somewhere that there is a chance that the pilot was unable to recover the aircraft from simulated emergency situation?

Like iv mentioned before this looks like a stall recovery gone wrong to me. Because all such maneuvers are practiced flying overhead model town park while flying in walton circuit. and the crash sight is not far from there.

[/quote]

Yes it is possible that they were practicing a stall recovery during the 7th circuit. it usually takes less than a minute in a cessna 150 to do so.
There is usually a pre-flight briefing prior to practicing something the student hasnt done before. There is no pre-flight briefing before a G.F (general flying) mission where we mainly practice touch and go's in different landing configurations, steep turns and stall recovery etc within the circuit. And this was a G.F sortie.[/quote]



I am sorry hear your opinion on this my dear friend. Firstly people have lost their lives in this incident and passing our theories on this unfortunate event is not right. Let the inspectors do their job. I am 100% positive they were not practicing stalls or steep turns in the circuit because there are other planes in the circuit and that can pose a danger to both airplanes and apart from that I do not believe its safe to practice a stall only 1000 AGL. One last thing I would like to mention is that 'Please if you have no knowledge or idea of what you are talking about don't pass a useless comment just to make conversation just like the kid in the news video clip blaming it on pilot error. It just shows how immature,unprofessional and incompetent people can be.

[TAILWIND]

I am sorry hear your opinion on this my dear friend. Firstly people have lost their lives in this incident and passing our theories on this unfortunate event is not right. Let the inspectors do their job. I am 100% positive they were not practicing stalls or steep turns in the circuit because there are other planes in the circuit and that can pose a danger to both airplanes and apart from that I do not believe its safe to practice a stall only 1000 AGL. One last thing I would like to mention is that 'Please if you have no knowledge or idea of what you are talking about don't pass a useless comment just to make conversation just like the kid in the news video clip blaming it on pilot error. It just shows how immature,unprofessional and incompetent people can be.

Couldn't agree more

[aj357]

The news report above does say that aircraft was airworthy. Does it mean that it was pilot error as I read somewhere that there is a chance that the pilot was unable to recover the aircraft from simulated emergency situation?

Like iv mentioned before this looks like a stall recovery gone wrong to me. Because all such maneuvers are practiced flying overhead model town park while flying in walton circuit. and the crash sight is not far from there.

Yes it is possible that they were practicing a stall recovery during the 7th circuit. it usually takes less than a minute in a cessna 150 to do so.
There is usually a pre-flight briefing prior to practicing something the student hasnt done before. There is no pre-flight briefing before a G.F (general flying) mission where we mainly practice touch and go's in different landing configurations, steep turns and stall recovery etc within the circuit. And this was a G.F sortie.[/quote]



I am sorry hear your opinion on this my dear friend. Firstly people have lost their lives in this incident and passing our theories on this unfortunate event is not right. Let the inspectors do their job. I am 100% positive they were not practicing stalls or steep turns in the circuit because there are other planes in the circuit and that can pose a danger to both airplanes and apart from that I do not believe its safe to practice a stall only 1000 AGL. One last thing I would like to mention is that 'Please if you have no knowledge or idea of what you are talking about don't pass a useless comment just to make conversation just like the kid in the news video clip blaming it on pilot error. It just shows how immature,unprofessional and incompetent people can be.[/quote]

How unfortunate and typical of us to resort to personal attacks when we ourselves have no idea what we are talking about.
100 PERCENT sure that steep turns and stalls are not practiced in Walton circuit?
My friend such maneuvers are practiced EVERY day EVERY flight over here.
Unlike you i am not being ignorant and confident, claiming to be 100 PERCENT sure. I am only presenting my opinion based on facts as i have obtained my C.P.L, flying more than 200 hours IN WALTON. So calling me immature, unprofessional and incompetent is not a very nice thing to say.

Secondly waqar and anita were both very good friends and i have the highest regard for them, im sure more than you do. We are only discussing things here and im not saying that my observation is correct, only presenting my humble opinion which is my right.

And respected Mr TAILWIND. it totally does not make sense for you to +1 what he has said because you have presented several of your 'theories' regarding the crash yourself. Just because you disagree with me does not mean you agree with him to bash me

[omart]

Did any of you visit the crash site?
i suggest you pass your "opinions" when you do....

..i just wana say that any one who knows just a lil about flying and aviation...can almost immediately rule out engine failure. Don't know why CAA has jokers as investigators. As they kept on fixating on the fact that it was...there was evidence that fuel had drained after the crash and the resident confirmed that he poured water as smoke started to appear and sparks occurred..hats of to the old guy...
Just wondering even if the did fail, why did it drop vertically? Why didn't the pilots inform? They must have surely spotted the symptoms of such a problem...
Im no expert....but seems quite clear that it went into a spin and they couldn't recover.
Why they were not able to recover? now that's of concern.
Just hear my version if it makes sense....

After reporting over model town park...almost end of left downwind...they practiced a power off stall, as it is done almost once every other time. Just as there is incipient stall, it is recovered. Following the normal procedures, it takes within a 100 feet to recover.
I recon they were just practicing just that, and Anita did not expect the aircraft would bank to the left while they were stalling it since it was a power off stall and rightly so....
What my have happened is the SP, while recovering, pulled on the column earlier that he should have. This time the power was full and the aircraft went into a secondary stall...power on stall, where the aircraft goes into a left bank. This was unexpected ....
Now what happened after that, why the instrument indicated full left rudder...is beyond me. Student froze? Anita couldn't take control of him? cross controlling...? who knows, they only had under ten seconds to recover from that height.. 2 pins max and they plummeted to the ground..
Some other facts accumulate also why this accident may have occurred ..but i wish to keep it to my self for some reasons...
bottom line, this was very unfortunate, could have been avoided...and should be avoided in future.
Safety should never by compromised because there are no second chances in this field.

May Allah give Sabr to the families of the departed..

my 50 cents

[aj357]

Did any of you visit the crash site?
i suggest you pass your "opinions" when you do....

..i just wana say that any one who knows just a lil about flying and aviation...can almost immediately rule out engine failure. Don't know why CAA has jokers as investigators. As they kept on fixating on the fact that it was...there was evidence that fuel had drained after the crash and the resident confirmed that he poured water as smoke started to appear and sparks occurred..hats of to the old guy...
Just wondering even if the did fail, why did it drop vertically? Why didn't the pilots inform? They must have surely spotted the symptoms of such a problem...
Im no expert....but seems quite clear that it went into a spin and they couldn't recover.
Why they were not able to recover? now that's of concern.
Just hear my version if it makes sense....

After reporting over model town park...almost end of left downwind...they practiced a power off stall, as it is done almost once every other time. Just as there is incipient stall, it is recovered. Following the normal procedures, it takes within a 100 feet to recover.
I recon they were just practicing just that, and Anita did not expect the aircraft would bank to the left while they were stalling it since it was a power off stall and rightly so....
What my have happened is the SP, while recovering, pulled on the column earlier that he should have. This time the power was full and the aircraft went into a secondary stall...power on stall, where the aircraft goes into a left bank. This was unexpected ....
Now what happened after that, why the instrument indicated full left rudder...is beyond me. Student froze? Anita couldn't take control of him? cross controlling...? who knows, they only had under ten seconds to recover from that height.. 2 pins max and they plummeted to the ground..
Some other facts accumulate also why this accident may have occurred ..but i wish to keep it to my self for some reasons...
bottom line, this was very unfortunate, could have been avoided...and should be avoided in future.
Safety should never by compromised because there are no second chances in this field.

May Allah give Sabr to the families of the departed..

my 50 cents

Thankyou very much for the input. finally someone agrees with me.

[TAILWIND]

And respected Mr TAILWIND. it totally does not make sense for you to +1 what he has said because you have presented several of your 'theories' regarding the crash yourself. Just because you disagree with me does not mean you agree with him to bash me

I am sorry I you think I joined in bashing of any sorts. moreover I did not present any theories, just gave my opinion on many theories.
Last but not the least, practicing stall and spins in circuit flying, as mentioned by few members through first hand experience is a big surprise to me and a gross safety violation. Dont know how the flying school got this approved and CAA oversight?

[saadm80]

1000 Feet AGL, now that is Unexpected....
Who would practice Stall at that Altitude, Now i haven't flown out of Walton, So not sure would is the Requirements and Minimums of Performing a Stall, but to my Knowledge Safe Altitude of Performing a Stall is 2000 Feet AGL....

[Guru]

It is too early to jump the gun and say what the pilots of that aircraft were doing that day. It is for the accident investigators to find out and we must wait for their findings. The sad but confirmed truth, however, is that yes, it is a usual practice for training aircraft to practice stalls in Walton circuit.

[omart]

we dont actually stall in the walton circuit, we recover as soon as the stall warning sounds..

and it is important for training as a student must know how to recover from an actual stall.
Lets say a student is cleared for solo flying in circuit and god forbids that aircraft stalls...then what wil he do if he has no experience how to recover from it....

...well...if the aircraft was at 3000 agl and still it would have happend..then there would have been questions about why the sp was not introduced to stalls in circuits..?Its human nature to question !

Either the approach controllers allow us to go to training area more often, coz whenever we request to go there , they say its not available...maybe they oughta re think the term and meaning of SEPERATION....
if they dont act like they do...there would be no need to practice all this in circuits..

[Guru]

omart, are you an instructor or a student?

[qjfunk]

The only stall I would make my student AWARE of in the circuit could be the cross-control stall. Which can occur mostly on downwind to base or base to final but considering the experience of the student pilot which was close to a 100 hours I am sure he and his instructor with their combined experience could verify a nose high attitude or lowering airspeed in a turn but as far as practicing a stall is concerned I would never do or teach a pilot a stall in the circuit pattern. Especially a power on stall when the aircraft has the tendency for its nose to drop in either direction if the airplane is not coordinated (not keeping the ball in the center) doing such a maneuver in the traffic patter can have deadly consequences.

I did not intend to bash anybody but it bothers me when my fellow pilots don't think with safety and common sense in perspective and just only write about certain theories because that's the only thing they can relate to.

[omart]

omart, are you an instructor or a student?

im doin by IR from hybrid bro

[Guru]

omart, are you an instructor or a student?

im doin by IR from hybrid bro

Thanks.

[jameel.ashraf3]

AA, What is Climbing Stall ... ? and What is Wingdrop like in Climbing Stall ? any idea ?

[inducedrag]

http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/fli ... stalls.htm