PIA ATR 42-500 (AP-BHO) Slips off at Lahore Airport

bernyjee · Post by **bernyjee** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:04 pm

TAILWIND wrote:It give me immense pleasure to find that so many air crash experts are memebers of this forum.
bernyjee wrote:Cockpit crew is always supposed to follow the instructions given by the control tower.
Well its not ALWAYS.. certain instructions are informative and pilot can act as per his judgement. If the wind direction is withinn the tail or cross wind limits of the aircraft, the pilot may elect to land from a direction other than one specified by the controller if so permitted.
IF control tower told cockpit crew to not land aircraft in a specific direction (as suggested by some posters here) due to wind speed AND cockpit crew acted against that order, then cockpit crew should be held responsible and their career to be ended.

Aircraft Captain bears most responsibility in this case.
Dont jump the gun. One does not hold people guilty less that 48 hrs after an accident not even NTSB..

You are entitled to an opinion for sure. However, outside Pakistan, Pilots follow the instructions by the control tower during the course of approaching an airport and landing. They cannot deviate. In Pakistan, a pilot can curse the control tower (an incident happened at LHE not too long ago involving an honorable mighty PIA 747 captain).

Am I jumping the gun by saying " IF .....they did what they were not supposed to.....THEN they should be dealt with ....."? If yes, then I am glad I did.

Now again, it is Pakistan. I am sure nothing will happen to these pilots even if they are proved guilty. When our PMs, Presidents, Generals and Quaids of movements can sell the country and its assets at throw away prices and then leave the nation behind, why cannot poor PIA pilots do whatever they wish? Its a small aircraft and a few people who got hurt. No big deal indeed.

So don't worry. Your buddies will be safe... Sleep tight.

Huraiz · Post by **Huraiz** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:03 pm

Thank GOD this accident didn't result in tragedy.
Now the reasons behind this,we may never know,but at least every one on board is safe and well.

AN · Post by AN » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:12 am

Gentlemen lets be clear about a few things

The wind at the time of landing at Lahore (I just landed 45 mins before this accident) was 150 15 knots gusting to 20. This equates to a tailwind component of about 14 knots and a crosswind component of about the same. The ATR cross wind component for a huge runway like lahores is 30 knots. The tailwind component on any runway is 15knots. These are the manufacturer limitations.
The captain landed on 36R well within the manufacturers limitations.
A tailwind causes an aircraft to run out of runway and vacate the runway at the end due to a higher groundspeed on touchdown, and lower rate of deceleration.

Hence the wind, which was fairly normal, and ATR's often land in comparitively higher tailwinds when the runway is as long as it is in lahore, WAS NOT A FACTOR CONTRIBUTING TO THIS ACCIDENT.

It is another fabrication by an uninformed media.

nopy99 · Post by **nopy99** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:50 am

Aroosh,

Thanks for the excellent pics and the detailed info.

would you (or anyone else) be able to mark out the path the ATR took from point of touchdown to where it came to rest on a google earth pic of LHE. it would be intresting to see the rough path the aircraft took during the incident.

from the news reports it sounds like its currently sitting past the cargo terminal towards the north west corner of the airfield between the perimiter fence and runway 18R

Adnan Anwar · Post by **Adnan Anwar** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:02 am

Damage is severe but I highly doubt that it is a write off.

SM · Post by SM » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:02 pm

AN wrote:Gentlemen lets be clear about a few things

The wind at the time of landing at Lahore (I just landed 45 mins before this accident, and was on the scene shortly after and took the pics that NAveed Riaz claims to have taken) was 150 15 knots gusting to 20. This equates to a tailwind component of about 14 knots and a crosswind component of about the same. The ATR cross wind component for a huge runway like lahores is 30 knots. The tailwind component on any runway is 15knots. These are the manufacturer limitations.
The captain landed on 36R well within the manufacturers limitations.
A tailwind causes an aircraft to run out of runway and vacate the runway at the end due to a higher groundspeed on touchdown, and lower rate of deceleration.

Hence the wind, which was fairly normal, and ATR's often land in comparitively higher tailwinds when the runway is as long as it is in lahore, WAS NOT A FACTOR CONTRIBUTING TO THIS ACCIDENT.

It is another fabrication by an uninformed media.

Hi Aroosh,

I received these in email from Naveed Riaz and thought he took them as he did not mention your name in his email. Regardless of this, I will remove the pictures for now and Abbas can repost them after coordinating with you.

Regards,

virk · Post by **virk** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:49 am

please post the pics again

ConnieMan · Post by **ConnieMan** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:13 am

SM wrote:Hi All,

I thought everyone interested in this thread would like to get visuals to what happened in Lahore.

Here are some shots on the subject from my friend Naveed Riaz:

I hope everyone finds this informative.

Regards,

Salam Abbas, I can't see these pictures. I would love to see them first before making any comment on this incident.

riz · Post by **riz** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:42 pm

wellcome back sameer........ the connie man.

ConnieMan · Post by **ConnieMan** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:21 am

riz wrote:wellcome back sameer........ the connie man.

Thank you Rizwan, it's very nice and great to back once again. I just hope no one ever has to go through what i have, not even my worst enemy, not that there is any...

I would love to see the pictures of crash landing or rather say landing mishap please, , , ,

faiq · Post by **faiq** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:21 am

I was jpgging along the old runway36L,when this all happened.There was nothing wrong on runway or with the wind.It seemed totaly it occured due to mishandeling of the aircraft by its crew.

SM · Post by SM » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:21 am

Hi All,

Based on my sources, it has been unofficially learnt that the subject a/c has been written off and will be cannibalized into a source of spare parts for the rest of the ATR fleet. Someone closer to the hearts and minds of PIA can confirm.

Regards,

Huraiz · Post by **Huraiz** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:57 am

SM wrote:Hi All,

Based on my sources, it has been unofficially learnt that the subject a/c has been written off and will be cannibalized into a source of spare parts for the rest of the ATR fleet.

That's really bad news (if true).PIA needs more aircraft at this time not less.Well I hope if that's the case then claim payment goes through quickly so PIA can look for new aircraft.

TAC777 · Post by **TAC777** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:10 pm

Its not true.The aircraft,AP-BHO,will be ready within one and a half to two months after initial report/estimates by the experts from Engineering.

raihans · Post by **raihans** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:30 pm

TAC777 wrote:Its not true.The aircraft,AP-BHO,will be ready within one and a half to two months after initial report/estimates by the experts from Engineering.

I wish it should not be write off but get repaired unless otherwise the repair costs is not economical option.