AirBlue jet down in Islamabad

[umar744]

learn experience crash of AirBlue A321 and bad weather. Next time anytime any bad weather then please never fly to bad weather until weather is clear. All Radar, Radio, EFIS, any machine CANNOT help and all pilot CANNOT see blank cloud like fog & steam. Never fly anywhere airport near hill and mountain like Kathmandu, Nada Fiji, Gevena, Zurich, Islamabad, Quetta, Gilgit, Skardu, Chihart, Sringhar, SaideSharif, Cape Town, most South America with hill mountain, most China with hill mountain, SAME danger like Phuket and Maldives and Hong Kong old airport and Hong Kong new airport. All every pilot said YES very danger in Hong Kong during bad weather. My old friend Capt.B.Ahmed said YES very DANGER land and take off in Islamabad during bad weather. I have been many times very bad weather land & take off in Islamabad, Hong Kong, Zurich. Capt.Pervaiz Iqbal Chaudrhy cannot see hill mountain and cockpit have NO warning signal that why cannot help anything any low ALT feet or something wrong. Hope Next time all airline get EXTRA lookafter takecare carefully and good health to fly inshallah good luck hopefully.

[hasan saleem]

There is also a lack of inadequate facilities at Islamabad Airport. The airport hasn’t been upgraded, runway 30 has CAT I and 12 doest even have an ILS.

[Che]

Could this be due to the perennial problems with the FBW system of airbus aircraft...the last time it flared up was when Air France crashed after taking off from Rio...

[Che]

Today, I found out those two U.S. Citizens were my dad's former boss' sister and her son who were somewhere from California,USA .Sadly, Former boss was also in that crash. May Allah forgive them and grant them Jannat. He was a really nice person and the owner of Hoffman Co. headquarters in Karachi.

Saratoga, California, very close to these parts here...

[AP-BGL]

Just came to know one of my Cousin's bhabhi also died in the same plane crash, she got married just one and a half years ago. May Allah grant Jannat to the departed souls. [-o<

[Abdullah Saleem]

In today's (July 29) edition of Urdu daily 'Jinnah' - www.dailyjinnah.com - in news reports about AirBlue accident there's this picture and photo caption claims 'black box' recovered from the crashed aircraft.



Does it mean the aircraft had separate CVR and FDR units and one of them has been recovered and search for the other one is going on ?

Abbas

It is a CVR [Cockpit Voice Recorder (shown above)]. There are 2 separate units for A321, installed on two separate places.

I guess they are looking for FDR.

[Abbas Ali]

Although sabotage and attempted hijacking will also be considered by team investigating AirBlue accident according to news reports. But apparently eye witnesses’ statements recorded by various news channels/newspapers did not see any thing like aircraft exploding in the air. The sound of impact was heard only when the aircraft crashed into Margalla Hills.

As far as possibility of attempted hijacking is concerned, till last communication between pilot and ATC reported in media there’s no indication/signal of any hijacking attempt.

Reports in media claim that red zone area in Islamabad where important buildings like parliament house, prime minister house, president house etc. are situated, that area is restricted or ‘no fly zone’. Is it true that this ‘no fly zone’ area is for all types of aircraft ? If yes, then how’s this ‘no fly zone’ enforced by air traffic controllers and what sort of defensive measures are adopted to prevent aircraft entering this ‘no fly zone’. I don’t think any type of anti-aircraft equipment is intalled in that red zone (no fly zone) area and apparently combat aircraft from nearest air bases like Kamra and Peshawar will take some minutes to reach and intercept an aircraft entering that 'no fly zone' area of Islamabad.

Some reports claim that the ill-fated aircraft entered this ‘no fly zone’ while some statements say the aircraft did not enter this ‘no fly zone’ area. Whether ill-fated AirBlue aircraft entered that ‘no fly zone’ area or not, in both cases apparently it did not play any role in aircraft crashing into Margalla Hills.

It will be useful to know the height at which the aircraft made an impact with Margalla Hills. Witnesses claim that they saw the ill-fated aircraft flying very slow and just seconds before its collision with Margalla Hills there was sudden increase in engines’ noise. This probably indicates that pilots saw hills dangerously close to the aircraft at that moment or got warning from Ground Proximity Warning System (GPWS) but it was too late to take evasive action. Landing gear was also down at the time of crash. The lowered landing gear might also have hindered attempt to climb and avoid collision with Margalla Hills.

The ill-fated AirBlue A321 (AP-BJB) which was built in 2000 most likely have been equipped with enhanced version of GPWS known as EGPWS. Here's info about difference between GPWS and EGPWS given on Wikipedia.

Traditional GPWS does have a blind spot. Since it can only gather data from directly below the aircraft, it must predict future terrain features. If there is a dramatic change in terrain, such as a steep slope, GPWS will not detect the aircraft closure rate until it is too late for evasive action.

In the late 1990s improvements were made and the system was renamed "Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning System" (EGPWS/TAWS). The system was now combined with a worldwide digital terrain database and relies on Global Positioning System (GPS) technology. On-board computers compared its current location with a database of the Earth's terrain. The Terrain Display now gave pilots a visual orientation to high and low points nearby the aircraft.

EGPWS software improvements were focused on solving two common problems; no warning at all, and late or improper response.

No Warning: The primary cause of CFIT occurrences with no GPWS warning is landing short. When the landing gear is down and landing flaps are deployed, the GPWS expects the airplane to land and therefore, issues no warning. EGPWS introduces the Terrain Clearance Floor (TCF) function, which provides GPWS protection even in the landing configuration.

Late Warning or Improper Response: The occurrence of a GPWS alert typically happens at a time of high workload and nearly always surprises the flight crew. Almost certainly, the aircraft is not where the pilot thinks it should be, and the response to a GPWS warning can be late in these circumstances. Warning time can also be short if the aircraft is flying into steep terrain since the downward looking radio altimeter is the primary sensor used for the warning calculation. The EGPWS improves terrain awareness and warning times by introducing the Terrain Display and the Terrain Data Base Look Ahead protection.

Source: Wikipedia

According to a report in July 29, 2010 edition of English daily ‘DAWN’, the aircraft should have made left turn roughly over Faizabad Interchange for landing on runway 12, instead of continuing flying in the direction of Margalla Hills.

Sources privy to the probe said that after the air traffic controllers noted that the pilot of ED202 was going for an unusual ‘wider approach’ beyond the allowed course and had failed to take the final ‘base turn’ towards left, approximately over Faizabad interchange,

Source: DAWN

Here’s satellite image of Rawalpindi, I’ve indicated location of Faizabad Interchange, position of runway 12 and approximate location of aircraft crash site indicated on the web.



Some reports claim, that some wreckage of the aircraft fell in Margalla Hills area which is difficult to gain access probably the black box being searched for is among pieces of wreckage in that area. Poor weather, heavy rains are hampering aircraft wreckage search/recovery efforts according to news reports.

Abbas

[A300before]

A tragic story of one of the families, father survived by taking PIA flight which left and hour or so earlier http://tribune.com.pk/multimedia/videos/32239/

From other discussions, another F/A was onboard too named Sapna, reported by various news sites, does anyone know about her, channels do not mention her status.

Somali diplomat and Austrian businessman were the foreigners on the flight.

[Salman Haider]

[Zulfiqar]

I doubt if there is a terrorist angle to this incident, but it will be considered. The fire on hillside and the state of the aircraft from the footage on TV, it is highly likely the plane rammed into the hillside.

Human error, pilot and ATC could be the cause, but what I am more concerend is the lack of proper modern ILS for the runways (runway 12). They should have it at all the major airports, for all the runways. The cost of not having it is clear. Afterall the government can afford huge palaces and fleets of mercedes, they can upgrade the airprots for their own safety. Perhaps ask Dubai / EK to do it for them.

There is a perenial problem with fog in the Punjab, and frequently in PEW and less so in KHI, but being international airports, they should be equipped with the latest instruments.

All wil be revealed if they ever publish the investigation report, e.g if the pilots tried to aviod populated area. One should not preempt anything now. People are grieving, that should be respected.

[Abbas Ali]

From other discussions, another F/A was onboard too named Sapna, reported by various news sites, does anyone know about her, channels do not mention her status.

According to news channel reports, the four cabin crew members were Umm-e-Habiba, Hina Usman, Shazia Razzaq and Naheed Bhatti.

Off-duty Flight Attendant Javeria Faraz was also on board.

Abbas

[A300before]

References for F/A Sapna Munawar:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/32224/rumou ... sing-wait/
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... pes--bi-03

[newflyer]

On a related note, how many seats did the A321 have? Official Airbus estimates are for 185 for two class configuration but didn't AirBlue abolished the business class and made all economy planes? It would make the total seats around 200.

[Abbas Ali]

In coming years AirBlue Airbus A321 crash site on Margalla Hills will become an aviation archaeology site.

Aviation archaeologists who include aviation historians, aviation artifact hunters and aviation researchers will be able to find small pieces of the crashed aircraft at crash site on Margalla Hills for many years to come.

More info about aviation archaeology can be found on following link:

Link: Aviation Archaeology

I hope a small memorial will also be built at or near the crash site.

Abbas

[Moin]

Abbas, if the location of the crash as pointed out by you on the map above is correct, I don't think its possible that the plane went anywhere close to the red zone. That is way off towards the East. It would be extremely bizarre that the plane would veer so far off course all the way to the East because it would first have made a turn to the right, fly towards the red zone and then turn left and head straight for the hills. There are witnesses in F7 who claim to have heard and even seen the plane fly over the area. Based on that those claims, it seems improbable that the plane was coming from the East/Red Zone area. Based on the above map, I think the plane flew straight ahead after leaving the airport and executed a very slow right turn if it ended up at the crash site as shown on the map.

Either way, the only version I'm inclined to believe will be the official version from Airbus and no one else.

I agree about a permanent memorial being placed at the site. If no one does it, I think some of us here can pool in some money for a marble plaque and have it placed on or as close to the site as is possible.