Large home brewing EDF Concorde flying model in making...

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ConnieMan
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Large home brewing EDF Concorde flying model in making...

Post by ConnieMan » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:33 am

This is one aircraft that i want to model as in RC model for very very long time, i can say even more then S Connie!!. Now finally after doing years or research and collected enough data that i have layed specs of my model and that now electric in RC technology has advanced so much that this is now possible to do.

My model is being purely designed by myself, i do ask around for things i'm not sure about but for the most part it's being drawn by me. This model will be large enough to be noticed for distance and will be one of kind at many RC events and flying fields here in Canada. I only know of one another large scale model of Concorde here in Toronto, but it's still in kit form as owner dosen't have time, funds or skills to build it up.

Specs are:

1:14th scale Concorde flying model
Length: 14.85' = 178.28"
W/Span: 6' = 72"
Height: 2.85' = 34.28"
Wing loading: 23oz sq/ft
Weight: 23lbs AUW RTF
Power: 4 x 70mm EDF units
Motors: Velocity 29mm 2600Kv, 1200watts
( Esc's, Batteries still has to be decided)

Technical Specs"

Nose cone length: 1.5' = 18"
Wing Chord length: 85.70"
Root chord thickness: 2.50"
Tip Thickness: 1/2"
(OB wings will have scale LE droops on them)

Wing type:
2pc plug-in wings panels on the sides of the fuselage, secured with carbon wing tubes. Full lighting system on the wings.

Fuselage type:
2pcs Fuselage, Front and Mid sections. Sections to be supported with Carbon tubes or bolt on formers sections with alignment pins. Nose cone will be fully functional including operation visor.
Full lightning system on the fuselage.

Landing Gears:
Fully scale 3 main gears, these will be modified gears from already present retracts, struts, wheel and wheel brakes already available presently in the market.


I have been working on designing this model on a draft form as i still need to get myself new powerful PC and Model CAD software's as Profili, Wingfoil, Solidworks or ModelCAD before i can scan these into them and make 3D models. I will sent files to laser kit cutter here in Ottawa, this fellow does amazing jobs and kits.

Fuselage will be foam core and then glassed over with 40z fiberglass cloth, once outer shell is complete, i will then burn off the foam and make n install 1/8" lite ply formers to gain the strength. I will use carbon fiber at key areas that would need more reinforcement. Wing will be full balsa and plywood built up, it will be fiber glassed once complete and then primed n painted.

I haven't chosen any livery as yet, but i have one in mind and couple guys on here already know which one it will be...lets hear from rest what ur suggestions are.



Edit: I have edited this post with new numbers in specifications and have also changed certain aspects how build will commence.
Last edited by ConnieMan on Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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ConnieMan
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Re: Large EDF powered Concorde RC model in works....

Post by ConnieMan » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:34 am

Here are my draft sketches i did in last few nights....

http://img180.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=picture511c.jpg

I'm trying to download a draft/sketch making program to do these on there...

In the wing, ribs will be spaced at 3" apart with total of 11 ribs. Spars will be made from reinforced carbon fiber laminated to 1/8" aircraft grade plywood. These will be placed vertically with ribs interlocking on them. I'm considering 2 other design changes also to see what will suit best for my purpose while keeping weight at minimum levels but with full strength. If anyone on here have better design idea/s pls do post them and i will look and see if i can consider any design ideas and implement them in final design. Wing will be sheeted with either 3/32" balsa sheeting or 1/16", wings will be fiber glassed before primer, details added and painting is done to them.
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ConnieMan
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Re: Large EDF powered Concorde RC model in works....

Post by ConnieMan » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:18 pm

More progress has been done to finalize the design aspects of this model. I have established contact with a British museum who has actual Concorde on public display, they got me in contact with a fellow who has all the technical stuff i needed to make my model as scale as possible. I have also in between re-crunched the number again as cost of power plant was going through the roof!, as it turned out that i could use different lighter yet stronger materials which in turn will save almost 7lbs from original estimated 30lbs AUW!. Now with and more accurate figures i will be using 70mm WM400 MK2 fan units with Velocity 29mm 2600Kv motors that will give me 1200 watts of power each!, my wing loading has increased to 23oz sq/ft due lightness of the airframe.

I have also contacted a fellow modeler who will take my sketches and redraw them on cad and make proper plans plus will modify any of the design that he may feel to do so. This is all due to fact that model will hit speed of 180-200mph at times and wing has to hold itself then and also in events of hard landings. Once i get files from him, i will send them to laser kit cutter out in Quebec who will cut ribs and spars for me. This way all will be done on cad and i will get 100% accurate parts to work with.

This morning i went on and made a drawing for the fuselage's center's constant cross section by looking at a picture in Flightpath Journal, then i sent it to fellow in UK and he replied that my guess work is 90% accurate specially just by looking at the photo, he is so impressed that he will send me more technical drawings then i will need just because of his appreciation...

It's not that long before i start to make the fuselage, yesterday i got some foam sheet pieces, i will get more today ot tomorrow and if i feel good health wise then i will start getting into hobby once again by assembling whole tailplane on my S Connie and permanently attaching it to the fuselage. It got back into that i need to finish S Connie this year and hopefully will have Concorde and S Connie RTF towards end of this year and for sure for next season in 2011....

Here is my drawing and the picture i guessed it from.

http://img683.imageshack.us/i/picture520j.jpg/
Center fuselage and wing cross section picture.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2321/picture521.jpg
Another close up of above picture.

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6190 ... sssect.jpg
My drawing of the constant fuselage cross section.
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ConnieMan
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Re: Large EDF powered Concorde RC model in works....

Post by ConnieMan » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 pm

http://img687.imageshack.us/i/concordecg.jpg/
Concorde's C of G locationrange. Pick lines are showing forward CG range and blue are showing aft CG range. Green line is discarded/disregarded....

http://img696.imageshack.us/i/f106tsagi5.jpg/
Selig TSA15 airfoil is selected for my model, this is very good as it has
reflex on it's TE as it's highly needed for delta wing aircrafts. Plus tip airfoils will have scale droops also.
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Re: Large EDF powered Concorde RC model in works....

Post by ConnieMan » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:07 pm

Ok guys, i like to know what your livery preferences or suggestions would be on this model.

http://img265.imageshack.us/i/1670246.jpg/
BA "Original delivery scheme"

http://img200.imageshack.us/i/1194328.jpg/
BA "Landor" scheme (Late 80's to mid 90s)

http://img42.imageshack.us/i/concordeandpiajumbo.jpg/
BA "Chatham" final scheme at the time of retirement of Concordes.

BA special livery....
"BA on right side and Singapore livery on left side"

BA/SIA with US registration scheme from late 70s era.

http://img59.imageshack.us/i/1471362.jpg/
BA/SIA with only British registration G-BOAD.

Now

http://img11.imageshack.us/i/1334711.jpg/
Air France "Original delivery scheme"

http://img153.imageshack.us/i/0017142.jpg/
Air France 70's, 80's, 90's, till retirement scheme.

http://img138.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=1001115b.jpg
Air France Pepsi Scheme on F-BTSC (This aircraft crashed in 2000)

Would like this post to be "POLL" post but i can't find how to do it, can anyone help with it, thanks
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ConnieMan
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Re: Large EDF powered Concorde RC model in works....

Post by ConnieMan » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:04 am

OK guys this is it, 74 views and not a single comment, post!!

This clearly shows that this project is not liked or is post able on this site, so from now on, i won't be updating it....mind you a lot of updates are sharable with you all....i thought Concorde would be more liked then other 3 projects of mine....
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Re: Large EDF powered Concorde RC model in works....

Post by Nasir » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:02 am

Connie, I guess people are waiting to see pictures of *your* work (or finished product) before they post feedback. Till then, you'll only get views, not posts. As far as livery choice is concerned, you should be the one making that decision since it is you who will be seeing the model everyday...
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Re: Large EDF powered Concorde RC model in works....

Post by ConnieMan » Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:52 am

Nasir, well if that's the case then someone should say something regarding it, i'm sorry but i can't read people's minds my friend...
I did posted links of the sketches i made but again no response, i know they are not much now days but due to lack of powerful enough computer, i have to use ole school methods for time being.

As far as livery is concerned, well i will be doing it in Air France's Pepsi livery...it's the most unusual livery of all times and it was selected and done on none other then this "Majestic Queen is Skies" :yes:
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Re: Large EDF powered Concorde RC model in works....

Post by ConnieMan » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:27 pm

Slow production is going on with this project, its very complicated project and by hooking up with right people in Europe i'm getting copies of actual "Blue prints" from BAC-SUD drawings soon. There is another 2 guys who have sent me drawings of this aircraft that are next to blue prints on quality and depth. Plus i'm also getting a copy of plans that one of the model designers in UK built and have been flying now for many years. I will disclose there names once they let me do it.

While all this going on, i have been doing an experiment to see if i could make Concorde's wing out of foam core. As i said before it's very complex wing design, it's not even regular type double delta wing but it's a cranked delta wing!, meaning: It had more then 2 angles on wing's profile design!. So the most difficult part was to get OB wing's anhedrial curve as well as OB wing tip's leading edge droop in scale manner. So i went around and asked people if it's all possible and 98% said NO!!, it's not possible to do in foam or with hot wire cutter!, few even said only way to do it, is by foam milling machines but then those guys charge huge bucks and it does takes away from fun of doing it yourself also.

(First set of pictures showing these 2 complex features on real aircraft. You will see curved down wings OB of the engine nacelles and will as notice Leading edge droop at the wing tips in the side shots. http://img297.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=74331480.jpg )

After thinking carefully and talking to one modeler who suggested doing it in layering method. I looked at that and came up with a plan to form a pre-bent anhedrial shape while laminating 2 layer together, so went on trying it with out glue first by curving 2 sheets of 3/4" on top of each other and got my shape, then i also looked to see if i can add leading edge droop to it, yup i got that to. It was then i glued both sheets of foam together under weights to form both curvatures before i even did my foam cutting. While glue was curing, i started working on designing my templates to assist my hot wire to make these cuts. By this time i had figured out that i had to cut this wing into sections otherwise i have to make bigger and longer bow as my present ones are only 30" long by 6" deep!, so i sectioned this wing into 3 sections span wise from root to tip after glued had fully cured.

These are photos foam sheets in pre-bent form by adding weights weights on them, you will notice i have card board template as gauge to make sure curvature of anhedrial dose not gets more then needed, it's orange gauge.
http://img693.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=picture542u.jpg

2nd set of photos, you will see wing is holding its pre-bent/curved shape pretty good from all angles.
http://img225.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=picture546.jpg
Last edited by ConnieMan on Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Large EDF powered Concorde RC model in works....

Post by ConnieMan » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:39 pm

Then i had a friend over to help me with cutting templates as i can't lift or use heavy power tools at this time.He used my scroll saw to cut the templates for me. I had to make 4 of these to get what i wanted, i designed these myself and them drilled holes in them to attach them to the sides of foam sections for cutting with nails. http://img30.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=picture551.jpg

In all this between my Mr.Cutter decided to sleep on me for the weekend but yesterday i got it to work again!. This is when i did foam cutting, after i got my wing cores cut, i went extra couple of miles and added reflex in the wing. I will be adding front wing block to finish this experiment today. In reality soon as i got my wing cores cut and i got anhedrail and leading edge droop, this experiment ended but i stretched it some more to see if i could add reflex also in the wing profile and yup i did added it.

These pictures are upload backwards, so look at bottom one first, then extreme right one in the upper row and onwards from right to left...http://img210.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=picture571i.jpg

Last set- You will see how i had to repeatedly re-attach templates to get the reflex built into last section of the wing, it's just not this section alone, i had to trim off minor thickness of foam from middle section also. I did this so, once i glue and assemble this wing together, i will lightly sand the whole wing while blending reflex into the wing smoothly as how it should be. http://img91.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=picture587.jpg


Ahmed on MSN asked if i was the only one doing this project by myself, well so far reality is that i have done some physical foam cutting work myself, a friend did initial template cutting for me but there are few guys who helped me with getting true drawings of the aircraft as i mentioned earlier. So now you can figure out it's so far a collective effort to make perfectly scale replication of Concorde aircraft.....with out proper drawing and documentation you can not achieve true and 100% scale replication in miniature scale compared to real prototype.
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Re: Large EDF powered Concorde RC model in works....

Post by Nasir » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:39 am

Quite a bit of effort Connie. This takes true effort! I hope the end result looks fab!
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Re: Large EDF powered Concorde RC model in works....

Post by ConnieMan » Thu May 06, 2010 6:11 am

It's true Nasir as this was another new era of foam cutting that i have come across and invented. I will soon have 3d model's pictures for all to see and cad drawn plans for the fuselage. Once i get my plans i will start by making fuselage cross section templates to cut foam fuselage sections. Presently i'm sharing ideas how to make nose droop able and functional Visor....Wing will not be done from foam, it will be balsa, ply built up structure. Weight will be too much if i did foam wing, i can do it by making lightening holes at strategic locations but then i will have sheet is with balsa sheeting and i hate sheeting foam cores this way. I rather apply fiberglass right over the foam core as i did with my Constellation build.
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Fuselage's 3D solid model

Post by ConnieMan » Wed May 12, 2010 7:08 am

Well here are couple of first sneak peak pictures of fuselage's 3D solid model under final stages. Root rib/wing mount and wing/body fairing will be added to final model.

http://img41.imageshack.us/i/solid3dima ... 20104.jpg/
Fuselage side image

http://img130.imageshack.us/i/solid3dim ... 20101.jpg/
Nose and forward fuselage image

Full fuselage model will be done in next few days, this also means paper plans are also very close to being drawn!!, ;)
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Glider model as Proof of Concept model and CG calculator.

Post by ConnieMan » Mon May 17, 2010 9:58 pm

I felt a need of making small chuck glider type model of Concorde to figure out it's true CG point and also fly this model as a "Proof of concept". I have a need to make 2 prototype models for this task, one as Chuck non powered glider, that will be balanced at different percentages until right CG location is found. Once it's proper CG is known, i will hand launch it to see how it flies. This model is using "Flat platefoil" on the wing, this is it's airfoil.

I have been working since morning to make this glider, i have so far completed the 1pc wing with dummy foam engine nacelles. Profile fuselage was drawn of PC's screen on tracing paper, then it was transferred on to 1/4" balsa sheet. I made this sheet by laminating 2x 3/32" x 36" sheets together. Then i transferred the fuselage from tracing paper to the balsa sheet and it was then hand cut by x-acto knife. It came out real nice actually. Presently it's still curing from the morning lamination and is placed under light weight so it will not warp. After this i will glue wing on to the fuselage with proper alignment, making sure it's straight and 90 degrees to the wing.

I will update more and with pictures hopefully before i'll move on to further steps.

Glider's wingspan is 15"
Fuselage length is 32"
Root chord length is 18"
Wing is made from 1/4" white foam board.
Fuselage is Balsa
Dummy nacelles are white styro foam.
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Re: Large EDF powered Concorde RC model in works....

Post by ConnieMan » Tue May 18, 2010 4:59 am

Here are pictures of the Chuck glider model.

http://img682.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=picture591m.jpg

Still few things needed to be done to it and then i will start launching it with CG set at starting 50% and going up to 60%.

Feedback will be good.
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