Break Up of PIA

Discuss issues and news related to PIA, Pakistani airlines and Pakistan's civil & military aviation.
Amaad Lone
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Break Up of PIA

Post by Amaad Lone »

PIA has asked the government to inject six billion rupees as equity.

THAT SHOULD NOT BE DONE.

This is what I suggest: BREAK UP PIA.

GULFAIR went through it with excellent results, Dubai with Emirates, Abu Dhabi with Etihad, and Doha with Qatar Airways.

CAAC went through with in China and the airlines did great, its now time for Pakistan to breakup its national flag carrier.

The federal government asks the provincial governments to contribute money towards paying off PIA debts, in return they all get a piece of the airline.

For example if the Punjab Government evaluates what it needs for a Lahore-based airline, catering to the needs of the surrounding areas of Lahore, and the rest of the province. Punjab is a province with an approximate population of 100 million people would be able to cater to the largest airline, based in Lahore.

After evaluating the needs of Lahore, the Punjab government pays off part of PIA debt and in return gets that much of the fleet and “some” employees.

The Sindh government does the same for Karachi and Sindh, along with Makran coast.

The third airline goes Islamabad, NWFP and Northern Balochistan.
Whichever employees are redundant can be laid off.

The three airlines initially takeover and split the exsisting fleet of PIA, and over the coming years develop their own plans.

It's like privatizing PIA to the provinces. PIA management is Karachi based and has been unable to handle four hubs (Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad, Peshawar) effectively.

Each province can also ask the private sector to participate in the equity of the new airline. Such as large industrial groups or banks.

The three new airlines would be lean and not carry the dead weight that PIA is currently carrying.

PIA has to breakup if their to be a future for Pakistani aviation without continious government injection of taxpayers money.
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ConnieMan
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Post by ConnieMan »

Sorry but i totally disagree with you on Breaking up PIA, no way PIA should be broken up, its a national carrier for our beloved country and it represent us across the globe. No other new airways or airlines would be able to keep this image across the globe. IF you were to say privertise it that could be considered as an option but not out right breaking our national symbol carrier..

Air Canada went through similar though financial difficulty times, Government helped them and now see how they are gloming again yets its private airline!, PIA needs help by kicking out self pocket fullers that are sitting on high seats, plus restructuring is needed in all departments but bringing PIA down to its kness will just kill it not revieve it.

I woulden't want to see PIA breaking up in my life time, even though i don't accept there current livery but thats dosen't allow me to see out Flag Carrier bring broken up, No one wants to lose there identity and this is our and our beloved country's Identity....
Last edited by ConnieMan on Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TAILWIND
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Post by TAILWIND »

Ammad Lone Said
This is what I suggest: BREAK UP PIA
You Treat, and NOT KILL the patient.
By no means I support Mr Kirmani's request for taxpayers' 6 Billion so that he and his favourite consultants keep on enjoying half a million a month in salaries and perks. To prove his (Kirmani's) credentials to run PIA he said in a recent TV interview, '....there (PSO) I was selling oil now I am selling seats...business is same all over.'

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Amaad Lone
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Post by Amaad Lone »

PIA is doing a horrible job.

It loses billions of rupees and expects governement bailout ever five years.

PIA beauracracy is bad news, with poor results.

Emirates is starting its 3rd daily non-stop flight to New York form Dubai, while PIA is stuck to its five weekly flights for the past 20 years.

PIA does not deserve to exsist.

It should be privatized and broken up.

A Lahore based airline supporting a population of 100 million would do a lot better then a PIA based in a city it has lost to Emirates.

PIA is a bad airline, and has not kept up with times, and needs to die.
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cpt_747
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Post by cpt_747 »

Finally someone has spoken. I totally agree with you Amaad. Continuous treatment of a patient is stupidity, especially if its going to cost in billions. Pakistan is not exactly Canada or any other western country, it is a poor country where thousands of people die every year because of hunger and deprived. We cannot compare PIA with any other airline, however when it comes to reforming it, lessons could always be learnt from other airlines, such as Emirates, Qatar, Gulf Air and so on. No need to be emotional about PIA, this is the reality of the time and then it is not going to be the 1st time that the government being asked to inject PIA.

I'd say, go ahead to the government and privatize this terminated sick airline.
The orbital speed of the Earth around the Sun averages about 30 km/s or 18 mps (108,000 km/h or 67000 mph).
Which means we're travelling 97 times the speed of sound. And yet we can't feel the motion,
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Adnan Anwar
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Post by Adnan Anwar »

If agree with you totaly on this Amaad but I was thinking you retain the long haul fleet or sell the long haul part of the PIA to some private venture capitalist firm and then form a international airline that just connects Pakistan to international routes while provincial airlines cater to dometic market maybe as private entities with code sharing somewhat.
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nutsforplanes
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Post by nutsforplanes »

Amaad, while I agree that GOP should not inject equity into PIA, cutting it into pieces is not the solution. You think the provincial govt's will be able to run an organisation like an airline. Its going to be same thing all over, albeit at a smaller scale.

Its no rocket science to figure out whats wrong with PIA. If PIA is privatised what do you think is the first step the new managament will take. Reduce the work force. So why cant PIA(or the Govt) do that right now. PIA has lost and is losing too many skilled employees for greener pastures.

It requires one strong person at the top to bring changes. Look what Shahid Khaqan Abassi has done with Air Blue after he was sacked from PIA by Musharraf. PIA has too much of a strategic importance for the GOP, for it to be broken up, privatised or let it go under.

cpt_747 wrote:
.....it is a poor country where thousands of people die every year because of hunger....
With all due respect, where did you get this from. You have some source to back this up.
zerbaer
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Air Blue

Post by zerbaer »

Look what Shahid Khaqan Abassi has done with Air Blue after he was sacked from PIA by Musharraf
Some of the wonders PIA was subjected to during Abassi time are matchless.
You will recall the Sabre scam where they were given the management and a complete fake, Shane Batt was the chief harpoon man. The infamous Rolls Royce powered CX B747-300 fraud will remain matchless for times to come. Kirmani still hasn't quite reached that level but is getting there fast. Please also recall the unprecedented support the CX deal had from GOP, Corporate Planning, Finance, PALPA, FENA, SAEP, CBA etc. , not to mention other lesser cheer leaders in the long list.
nutsforplanes
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Post by nutsforplanes »

Zerbaer, you are missing the point here. I am not condoning the workings of Shahid Khaqan, when he was chairman of PIA. Khaqan, I believe was just a figurehead, being an MNA in Nawaz Sharif's time. It was the other Abbassi(Arif), the MD of PIA, who I fervently believe was behind the CX deal. Why do you think the management had unprecedented internal support for the CX deal, surely not because of Khaqan.
Amaad Lone
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Post by Amaad Lone »

Government should not be in the business of running a business.

The six billion needed to bail out PIA should be used to educate Pakistani children, build hospitals, roads or mini-dams for power and irrigation.

These are the jobs of a government, not finance bankrupt airlines.

I can see an international airline based in Lahore, operating a fleet of 20 planes with around 4,000 employees.

Pakistan needs an international airline to counter PIA, otherwise we can see complete domination of our skies by Emirates, Qatar, and Ethihad.

Are foreign airlines allowed to invest in the airline sector in Pakistan??
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SaadSaeed
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Post by SaadSaeed »

otherwise we can see complete domination of our skies by Emirates, Qatar, and Ethihad
whats wrong with that? why keep a national airline at all? im just curious to know.
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cpt_747
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Post by cpt_747 »

nutsforplanes asks:
With all due respect, where did you get this from. You have some source to back this up.
Don't you watch or read any news or you just too busy watching cricket? Have you forgotten what happened in Kashmir? Over 300,000 people are still at risk and over a million are living in temporary accommodations (or maybe you don't consider them Pakistanis). And my source is the United Nations. It was written in last week's Financial Times. Why should the rest of the World donate for Kashmir earthquake when the Government is stupidly & blindly going to waste billions in the name of National Pride and what National Pride are we talking about here, something that is never on-time? If its going to be my identity then I had rather live anonymously.

GoodLuck to PIA, and this time it really is the Pain In the A***
The orbital speed of the Earth around the Sun averages about 30 km/s or 18 mps (108,000 km/h or 67000 mph).
Which means we're travelling 97 times the speed of sound. And yet we can't feel the motion,
SubhanAllah
nutsforplanes
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Post by nutsforplanes »

cpt_747 wrote:
Don't you watch or read any news or you just too busy watching cricket
The thing is people like you live in far away lands and pass judgements about Pakistan. What do you know about whats going on in Kashmir. I am
a Kashmiri, and I go there every other month since the earthquake. Have you been there since the earthquake? What have you done about helping
the Kashmiris. Why dont you keep on guarding the 'goras' and let Pakistanis worry about Pakistan
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cpt_747
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Post by cpt_747 »

I don't have to say anything in my defence because Allah is watching us all and he knows who has done what in oder to help Kashmiris. As far as your racist remarks, it tells me the sort of person you are. I don't do business with racists, whether it's towards Pakistanis or English.
The orbital speed of the Earth around the Sun averages about 30 km/s or 18 mps (108,000 km/h or 67000 mph).
Which means we're travelling 97 times the speed of sound. And yet we can't feel the motion,
SubhanAllah
nutsforplanes
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Post by nutsforplanes »

Oh yes! You'd rather live anonymously