Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Discuss issues and news related to PIA, Pakistani airlines and Pakistan's civil & military aviation.

Should PIA be shut down

Yes
13
65%
No
7
35%
 
Total votes: 20

Pakistan-1
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Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Post by Pakistan-1 »

Seeing how PIA leeching billions of Pakistan’s ecnonomy and is forcing the fragile private airline industry to go bust, Should PIA be killed for the greater good and should the government move it’s focus to incourage the growth of private airlines to take PIA’s place and be a better representative of Pakistan? Or should the government continue to pour billions into the well that PIA is ?
Please answer I look forward to a wonderful discussion on this issue.
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Sadiq
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Re: Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Post by Sadiq »

It is GOP responsibility to provide level playing field to private carriers in Pakistan aviation Industry. PIA undercuts the domestic fares and than ask for Govt financial support to cover its losses. In this way PIA is stunting the growth of Domestic carriers in Pakistan.

The solution is for Govt to take responsibility of PIA legacy loans and privatise at the earliest.
Amaad Lone
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Re: Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Post by Amaad Lone »

The solution is for Govt to take responsibility of PIA legacy loans and privatise at the earliest.
True, but what is "legacy loans"

Its losses PIA made due to poor management. Operating gas guzzling jets when oil was at $100 barrel. Had PIA switched to better aircraft back then PIA losses would be lower.

Now 13 billion in finance charges but what about the 32 billion in other losses?????????????????

PIA needs to hand over the hotels to the government in return for a 200 billion debt take over by the government, which by the way has already been guaranteed by the Government of Pakistan.

Once PIA a clean chit from the banks, PIA employees needs to form a holding company and that company should buy PIA from the government with 19,000 share holders. After that they all figure out a way to run the airline. Remove half the shareholders from the payroll. Expand fleet and network. Fire the lazy shareholders and the corrupt ones.

But the 200 billion debt write off (not for free) will give PIA the positive net present value that it needs to be sold.

THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT CAN BUY THE AIRLINE FROM THE GOVERNEMENT, ITS DAMN EMPLOYEES, ANYONE ELSE THE UNIONS WILL NOT LET THE DEAL GO THROUGH.
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Sadiq
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Re: Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Post by Sadiq »

Employees buyout formula isn't going to work in PIA, given class difference and deep animosity in various cadres. Four major employee categories represented by different bodies prevail in PIA viz;
1. Cockpit Crew. PALPA.
2. Engineers. SEAP.
3. General Officers SASA
4. Staff. Air League
PALPA affiliates pay structure and benefits are way ahead of others and they consider themselves as ruling class.
Under this scenario, to expect a unified approach and possibility of putting in joint effort for revival of PIA is highly unlikely.
Best option would be to find local investor who can lure in management interest from an International low cost Budget carrier. It is my dream to see an airline similar to RAYAN AIR operating in Pakistan offering KHI-LHE fare of Rs3000 and KHI-ISB fare of Rs4000. True, even actual fares in Europe offered by RAYAN AIR EUROPE are lower than above for same distance. This will give a chance to bus/train passengers to bypass the substandard service offered and take a quantum leap to air travel.
Sadiq
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Re: Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Post by Sadiq »

The pretence that no Govt bail out to PIA is made and only loans from commercial Banks on Government guarantee are issued is an eyewash, since PIA is never going to develop capacity to repay on its own. With accumulated losses of Rs 400 billion and recurring loss > 40 billion every year Govt should opt to either bailout or stop financing PIA.
TAILWIND
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Re: Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Post by TAILWIND »

Amaad Lone wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:58 pm
Once PIA a clean chit from the banks, PIA employees needs to form a holding company and that company should buy PIA from the government with 19,000 share holders. After that they all figure out a way to run the airline.
Have a heart, these very employees contributed mainly, if not solely for airline to get to where it is.
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Salman Haider
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Re: Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Post by Salman Haider »

AirBlue is acquiring surrendered routes of PIA
October 25, 2017

By Yasir Zeb

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AirBlue is acquiring routes one by one which is left by PIA, this is why PIA has been demeaned over the past few years.

Pakistan International Airlines once was classed as the world’s top airline which trained staff of Emirates and Etihad Airlines in the past. Now, what is changed? Why has PIA been considered a below standard airline now? PIA is considered an Airline on the verge of crisis.

We will dig out to get the cat out of the bag,

Let’s start with the recent developments; PIA has just announced a few days ago, that the company is giving up its New York operations by December. PIA incurred 47.03 billion in loss reported back in August.

And then during Hajj season, Airblue gets double hajj quota than the national flag airline, and before that, there were a number of incidents reported which played a significant role in jeopardizing the credibility of PIA.

But the question here is; who will be benefitted the most from the problems in PIA? The answer is Airblue.

Recently, in an interview on a TV channel, president of Pakistan Federal Union of Journalists (PFUJ) Rana Azeem claimed that Airblue is acquiring the routes from PIA which the national airline has chosen to give up. He also claims that Airblue belongs to the current prime minister of Pakistan and the government is playing a critical role in making the national airline crippled.

“During the hajj season, most governmental travelers traveled on Airblue rather than traveling on PIA, it was already planned by the government”, said Rana Azeem.
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Abbas Ali
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Re: Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Post by Abbas Ali »

^ That's a typical piece of yellow journalism with baseless allegations.
AirBlue is acquiring routes one by one which is left by PIA
Which routes?
And then during Hajj season, Airblue gets double hajj quota than the national flag airline
According to PTV News, biggest number of pilgrims were flown by PIA in year 2017 pre-Hajj flights from Pakistan. airblue transported smallest number of pilgrims obviously because of airline's small fleet of narrow-body aircraft:

36% of pilgrims transported by PIA.
33% of pilgrims transported by Shaheen Air.
16% of pilgrims transported by Saudia.
15% of pilgrims transported by airblue.

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TAILWIND
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Re: Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Post by TAILWIND »

Good rejoinder.... Abbas thanks
furqan_haider
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Re: Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Post by furqan_haider »

"Naqal ke liye bi Aqal chahiye", same goes for the above article...
How an airline with very small fleet size can take over PIA?
Amaad Lone
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Re: Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Post by Amaad Lone »

What routes will Air Blue take over???????????

They could not even manage a single UK route, Manchester.

Shaheen I think flopped on the Kuala Lumpur route only managing Islamabad-Manchester route.

PIA has declined due to poor management hired by corrupt politicians

Good luck reviving an airline with 24 jets and 300 billion in loans.
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Boomin Bomber IJ
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Re: Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Post by Boomin Bomber IJ »

Why not for once put the corrupt mafia in front of the firing squad and let the country and its institutions be run by honest people??? :angry:
Umair94
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Re: Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Post by Umair94 »

Shaheen and AirBlue seem to have no strong expansion strategy in place at all. They have only focussed on routes where PIA already used to operate e.g Shaheen to KUL and MAN, Airblue to Man and BHX, they completely missed the trick when PIA closed down some routes where PIA did not make a single penny such as Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Brussels. Now that PIA is closing down some routes these airlines should take their chance..... the only advantage for Pakistani airlines at the moment is that they can offer direct flights but product wise they need some significant improvement.
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Ammar
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Re: Killing PIA for the sake of Pakistan

Post by Ammar »

I got a Whatsapp article yesterday in which a friend claimed Airblue was planning to takeover PIA's New York and Toronto routes this year, and London/Manchester/Birmingham routes by February. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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