The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Discuss issues and news related to PIA, Pakistani airlines and Pakistan's civil & military aviation.
Amaad Lone
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The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by Amaad Lone »

PIA owes money to everyone. CAA, PSO FBR banks, share holders employees.

Liabilities are worth more then assets. Technically PIA is bankrupt.

With a load factor of less then 70 percent PIA cannot sustain its operations and is only adding to its problems. Whether there is a German CEO or a Saigol Chairman there is no solution.

Now PIA wants to spend billions on club class seats while it does not have money to pay CAA or PSO.

Only one solution.

35 planes. 6,000 employees and fleet related debt goes to PIA 2. That airline code shares with airlines like THY to Europe and the US giving it the capacity to fight Emirates, Etihad and Qatar which are dumping huge amount of capacity to Pakistani cities.

The government takes over the two hotels in New York and Paris, plus the remaining employees and excess debt, some of which should be paid off by selling the two hotels.

If this cannot be done then the airline will be a huge liability for the government and the state of Pakistan.
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Re: The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by Pakistan-1 »

PIA should file for bankruptcy and a new airline called Pakistan Airways,a partnership with some super carrier like SQ or IAG and use the remaining assets of PIA as a initial investment

At the Same time the government sets up a civil air service to take over the social economic routes.
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raihans
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Re: The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by raihans »

i see every week a new post raising from you to sell these hotels and totally disagree with you to sell ANY property of PIAIL for settlement of the PIACL debts

Matter of sold A310 Echo Quebec is not solved and aircraft is gone in foreign custody and you are talking about selling these hotels of PIA [-X [-X [-X
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Re: The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by raihans »

Amaad Lone wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:05 am If this cannot be done then the airline will be a huge liability for the government and the state of Pakistan.
there are many political employment scandals in PIA, why not talk about them if you feel so much pain and burden of PIA?
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proudPakistani
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Re: The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by proudPakistani »

I travelled on PIA last week from ISL - KHI - ISL. Islamabad to Karachi was early morning i.e. 06:30. It was 100% full on A320 plane. Even Business class. And my return flight on same day on 777 plane was carrying about 200 passengers. which is good on domestic route.

I was impressed with quality of food. And Service was also not bad. Only Problem was that A320 seats on economy are in very bad condition. PIA should change them. And need to remove these 777 from domestic routes.
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Re: The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by proudPakistani »

PIA reduces flights to KUL route from 7 to 6 per week. Beijing flight reduced from 4 to 3 per week. London flights reduced from LHR and KHI. Ended Muscat route from LHR.

Few days ago I talked with an agent for my booking he said "Nobody is booking PIA now a days". PK 661 Crash, ATR grounding and continuous media program hurt a lot PIA. So I don't think PIA can regain its glory in next 4-5 years alteast. Damage is already done.

PIA need to find new routes, Where there is no competition with ME6 like flights to dubai, Jeddah, Muscat from Quetta, Faisalabad and Multan. And Can start 3 flights per week to Sydney and MEL from Islamabad/LHR.
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Ammar
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Re: The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by Ammar »

proudPakistani wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:14 pm PIA reduces flights to KUL route from 7 to 6 per week. Beijing flight reduced from 4 to 3 per week. London flights reduced from LHR and KHI. Ended Muscat route from LHR.

Few days ago I talked with an agent for my booking he said "Nobody is booking PIA now a days". PK 661 Crash, ATR grounding and continuous media program hurt a lot PIA. So I don't think PIA can regain its glory in next 4-5 years alteast. Damage is already done.

PIA need to find new routes, Where there is no competition with ME6 like flights to dubai, Jeddah, Muscat from Quetta, Faisalabad and Multan. And Can start 3 flights per week to Sydney and MEL from Islamabad/LHR.
Respectfully, I disagree.
It's the low-season, and flights will naturally be half-empty. PIA to Dubai even during February and March was full 90% in both cabins. London from Islamabad is also doing well, I speak from experience.
The negative attention is definitely hurting PIA, even the CEO admits it, but it's impact hit PIA badly early this year. By June IA, it's effects will have worn off and in the high-season bookings should be back to normal.

Flying to Sydney is just not viable. PIA's social media page on FB recently shared an interview of Mr. Hildenbrand with some news agency, in which he spoke about the issue of starting Sydney flights, and why they aren't viable.
Flights from Lahore to LHR decreased but increased in Islamabad.
And flights can still be booked to PEK via LHE, making it 4x weekly if I'm not mistaken.
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uzkt01
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Re: The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by uzkt01 »

Ah! The hotels again
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Re: The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by riz »

Amaad Lone wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:05 am

The government takes over the two hotels in New York and Paris, plus the remaining employees and excess debt, some of which should be paid off by selling the two hotels.

:very_mad: :very_mad:
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Re: The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by dreamliner99 »

You would have to be insane to sell of two highly valuable and profitable assets to fund an airline that probably wouldn't even breakeven without the legacy loans.
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Re: The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by umer »

Theres no way you can turn around PIA without a check and balance system. Make a new airline or PIA 2 or govt pays all PIA debts whatever ... nothing can be done until each n everyone is made answerable. No organisation can run the way PIA has been running.

At the moment, each n every worker in PIA is clueless, from a loader to ops control to the management... every flight is like its the first flight. People do, what they want to do and not what they are supposed to do and they get away with it.

I am sorry but even if someone pays off Rs 300 billion debt for PIA and gives an extra 300 billion on top of that .. it will be back to where it is in few years time.. We need to change the working culture and recruit people on merit..and then check and balance is most important and then the same organisation with same people will not only pay off its debt but be profitable in less than a decade.
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Re: The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by rayyanullah »

If it was easy to turn around a business then the likes of SWISSAIR , ANSETT-ANA , PANAM , TWA , NORTHWEST , BEA , LAKER would still be around but perhaps they did not have the geniuses who keep lining their pockets and keep professing that no matter how long and how much it takes their plans for PIA will make this dream come true.
Image change in lives of those deprived of clean water , housing , healthcare , education and such "luxuries" if money spent on Steer Mill, PIA etc was utilized for the benefit of PAKISTAN and PAKISTANIS.
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Re: The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by bnm »

In fact, PIA still living in 70s era, when we called PIA a world class airline only because there was no competition in region and PIA enjoyed world class title with only 30s air crafts, now we still have 32 air crafts and wanted to compete with the airlines having 200 air crafts, in my view, the only solutions is double qty of air crafts and start new international roots. Also some good marketing campaigns with the peaceful image of country can help in this regard.
Amaad Lone
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Re: The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by Amaad Lone »

For all of those who oppose the sale of hotels to pay of the debt and giving PIA some breathing space, please suggest a solution to PIA problems.

Removing incompetent employees is rule no one, but anything else.

Just imagine yourself in heavy debt where you pay 140,000 rupees a month in interest and are not able to because you do not have the income. Then you have a property that earns you 20,000 month but if you sell it you can pay off your loans, will you sell that house??

The PIA hotels earn a profit of around $25 million a year, but the loans they will clear will save PIA around 120 million dollars a year. I think its a win win situation.

Pan Am sold the Intercon chain, the Pan Am building, the Pacific routes to United Airlines to raise money when it was losing money. Pan Am did not have the luxury to get a blank check from the government like PIA does

Nobody wants to fix PIA and take on the unions, they only want short term solutions like the Premier Service that only causes heavier losses. PIA is beyond cosmetic changes, it now needs an amputation.
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Re: The Chaos called PIA and is there a solution???

Post by riz »

Abolish qouta system not just from PIA but from all over Pakistan.
If you don't agree with it. Start hiring people on Qouta system for your own company or any business if you have.
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