PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

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Squawk_1200
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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by Squawk_1200 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:30 pm

It is still too early for PIA and CAA to give any definite information about the reasons of crash. Even if PIA and CAA heard the combination recorders it is still early for them to conclude anything.

So far what has been revealed by secretary of aviation is, ruling out that airplane had an engine problem. Airplane,s both engines were developing 100% power ,This may be true looking at the graph and the flight path of airplane available over the internet free sites and by some independent sites , airplane performance climb gradient temperature and density altitude was normal ,aircraft reached cruising altitude and its time of arrival at destination was by the clock ,

If recorders reveal some thing that without visual reconstruction of the pieces of aircraft it will still take some time before SIB give out any information.

. For example, if something terrible happened to the aircraft during ( not definitely ) in a restart attempt to start the faulty engine in the air may have cause come thing catastrophic , propeller blades coming of the the hub hitting the fuselage or a debris hitting to T tail mechanism or cables causing an airplane to go uncontrolled.

SIB words would be final and I dont think SIB will have anything to hide .
Airplane is flown with brain not with stick and rudder.


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Abbas Ali
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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by Abbas Ali » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:08 am

Talking to Dunya News channel, Secretary Aviation/Acting Chairman PIA Irfan Elahi clarified that on January 12 a parliamentary committee was given information from audio recording of communication between pilot(s) and Islamabad ATC recorded on the ground by ATC. It was not information from crashed aircraft's flight recorders, as reported by some sections of media.

Flight recorders data is still with SIB which is are working on it i.e. synchronizing recorders data etc. The flight recorders data has not been released by SIB so far.

https://youtu.be/doqjUKmz7mI?t=32m52s

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arshad.altaf
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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by arshad.altaf » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:24 pm

Black box data fails to find cause of Dec 7 plane crash

ISLAMABAD: The transcript analysis of the black box of PK-661 — the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) flight that crashed near Havelian while travelling from Chitral to Islamabad on Dec 7 — has failed to find the real cause of the crash.

This was disclosed by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) during a meeting of the Senate Standing Committee on Rules of Procedures and Privileges on Thursday.

All 47 people on board were killed in the crash. It took almost two weeks to complete the process of DNA tests and handing over the bodies to families.

CAA Secretary Irfan Elahi, while sharing the findings with the committee, said both engines of the aircraft were running “100 per cent” fine when the plane took off from Chitral. One of the engines was working properly even when the plane crashed.

“The black box data indicates that no effort was made to land the aircraft before the crash. So investigations are still going on to determine why the plane crashed despite the fact that one of its engines was properly working,” he said.

The CAA secretary told the meeting presided over by National Party legislator Dr Jehanzeb Jamaldini that the first call to the control room had been made at 4.12pm and the pilot’s voice seemed ‘calm’.

“Only after two minutes at 4.14pm, the pilot issued a Mayday call, saying one of the engines had stopped working. Just three minutes after that at 4.17pm, the plane changed its route and went towards east instead of going towards south, which was its path. At that point the control room tried to get in touch with the pilot and the last communication with the pilot was recorded at 4.17pm,” he said.

Mr Elahi said that 10 to 15 minutes later it was confirmed that the plane had crashed. He claimed that the black box data was 100pc unaltered and the investigation was conducted independently, without any involvement of the PIA and the CAA.

Claiming that the plane was quite safe, he said the prime minister had travelled to Gwadar on the same aircraft one week before the crash.

It is worth mentioning here that the initial report of the crash prepared by the CAA had reportedly suggested that the ill-fated aircraft had been flying smoothly at 13,375 feet when its left engine malfunctioned, exploded and damaged a wing bringing down the plane in the mountainous area near Abbottabad. The aircraft had flown 18,740 hours before its crash. The weather conditions in the area at the time of the crash were normal, according to the report.

Besides this, the pilot of the aircraft had extensive experience of flying in northern areas. The report said that ATRs could glide even if both engines were switched off or had malfunctioned. However, an aircraft will fall freely if there is structural damage as hampered aerodynamics does not allow it to glide with gradual descent. There is a possibility then that the failed engine had exploded and damaged the wing attached to it.

According to the report, ATR 42-500 is one of the most recent versions of the aircraft. Its first delivery was made in 1995 while the plane in question was delivered to the PIA on May 14, 2007. The aircraft had one instance of an engine failure in 2014. The engine was replaced and since then, it had been operating smoothly.

A team of foreign experts from the ATR manufactures had also visited the crash site to help the probe team working to ascertain the cause of the deadly incident.

Published in Dawn, January 13th, 2017

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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by Abbas Ali » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:33 pm

^ That information is from Islamabad ATC/radar recordings and repeatedly stated by various officials from PIA, CAA, Aviation Division etc. since the crash.

Flight recorders data/information report not released by SIB so far.

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arshad.altaf
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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by arshad.altaf » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:41 pm

This is quite misleading and will again lead to unnecessary speculation-unfortunately.

In today's Jang there is a news item on front page saying that the pilot was videoing while the plane crash. They print anything they feel like printing these guys:
https://e.jang.com.pk/01-13-2017/karach ... ame=248918

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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by Abbas Ali » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:58 pm

^ Yes, reports claiming that a pilot was busy making video have been dismissed as totally baseless by Secretary Aviation.

Another report claiming that a flight stewardess was present in the cockpit and contacted ATC before the crash is also dismissed. Actually a female voice (probably of an ATC controller) in ATC centre is heard in ATC recordings of communication between ATC and flight 661. Some news sources began claiming that the female voice was coming from aircraft cockpit.

Example from Dunya News:

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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by faisal-777 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:44 pm

Why is there no penalty for posting fake/wrong facts in media. On top of that, it seems there exists no jouranlist in Pakistan, with even the basic knowledge of aviation.
Once you have tasted flight, you will ever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward - Leonardo Da Vinci

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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by Abbas Ali » Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:48 pm

^ From time to time PEMRA takes action against news channels airing such reports.

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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by faisal-777 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:55 pm

Here's Mubasher Lucman's theory on what might have happened. Sorry I could not find direct dailymotion link:

http://www.zemtv.com/2017/01/12/khara-s ... uary-2017/
Once you have tasted flight, you will ever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward - Leonardo Da Vinci

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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by Abbas Ali » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:23 pm

Parts from aircraft engines, electrical system, transponder, circuit boards etc. were/are sent abroad for forensic tests/analysis, according to Dunya News channel.

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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by Abbas Ali » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:08 pm

Photos of AP-BHO wreckage transported by road from Havelian to Rawalpindi/Islamabad.



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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by smhusain_1 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:15 pm

The news report from the Civil Aviation Authority channel published very recently in the media is an eye wash. Obviously both engines would have been working for the takeoff to have been conducted from Chitral. However, the report did dispel speculation which has persisted in the media about the 'Mayday' call being issued right after takeoff from Chitral suggesting a failure of an engine on takeoff. There is mention of the Mayday call and crash within four minutes of each other near the impact site and a diversion in heading to the east by the aircraft; to create doubt in the readers mind as if this was intentional.
The diversion east from a southerly heading could be explained by the loss of the left engine(#1); the aircraft could not be controlled ? Why? Maybe there was structural damage to the wing affecting the aerodynamics, the lift; maybe the engine even came off its mounting rendering control almost impossible.The pilot was experienced and such aircraft can be controlled with a loss of an engine at V1 at take off power. Here the aircraft was probably in a descent profile, a lower power mode. 13500 feet is not a cruising altitude from Chitral. I would request the concerned authorities that whenever this report is published, it should be made available to the common man and no element of protection in responsiblity should be entertained.
There was nothing else in the news report.

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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by NL » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:58 pm

smhusain_1 wrote:13500 feet is not a cruising altitude from Chitral.
Normal cruise altitude for an atr42 would be around 22,000 ft, maybe they were referring to the ceiling with one engine out. Anyway, so far all these reports lack substance, such as the actual recorder readouts, transcripts of atc convo maintenance logs and so on. Guess the time for a real report to be released will be measured in years, if at all.

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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by inducedrag » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:17 am


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Re: PIA ATR Flight PK-661 Crashes Near Havelian

Post by arshad.altaf » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:08 pm

It seems like a routine procedure i.e testing of crew's samples after any crash has been given a sensational angle once again. Unless I am missing something.

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