Future of European Airlines returning to Pakistan

[lh658]

Salaam Guy's

What do you guy's think of European traffic coming back?I think there a potential. European carriers fly to places in Africa and even in Erbil, Iraq which are pretty deadly, worse than Pakistan current state. I feel like Lahore and Islamabad are fine for foreign carriers to rest over. I feel like Lufthansa could be good candidate for Lahore again, due to Punjab region ties with Germany and rest of Europe not just diaspora, but as well as business ties and cargo too. Putting Air Canada and United Airlines code share will help the route. Islamabad I can see British Airways restarting Islamabad as UK has large presence of Pakistani, but as well as trade, diplomats, and, investors flying back and forward, even if they put the AA code share on that route I believe it will be better success. I believe BA had 6 weekly flights on 777. On top carriers can pick up traffic from North America cities like Vancouver, Toronto, New York/New Jersey, San Francisco, rest of Europe, and etc that have huge Punjabi/Northern Area diaspora. Like I mention the code share will be good cause companies like American government workers are allowed to fly on those routes, as well foreign business travels will earn mileage.

I can see BA going daily with 787-800 as there is no first class just Business, premium, and economy. Lufthansa I see 4 to 5 times weekly a330/a343.
I know after the Marriott Islamabad bombing BA had pulled out as I assumed that is the hotel where the crew stayed and I believe Lahore was doing well with Lufthansa compared to Karachi. I think problem was flight was turning back to Muscat exchanging crews etc.

I feel like only reason why Middle East carriers are winning is that they don't need to refuel in Pakistan and don't really need to require a crew rest.

Only issues I see is Pakistan airport authority fee's maybe high compare to Middle East, and as well as fuel, which resulted carrier such as Air France/KLM code sharing funneling traffic via Abu Dhabi with Etihad etc.

[lh658]

Lufthansa also started a new division called Lufthansa City Line which operates a343. I feel like Lahore could have shot again, if the business is still there.

[CoyBoy]

despite security issues during the 2000s Virgin, BMI and more recently Austrian were considering flying here.

Personally I hope no one returns and no new ones fly in because with one fire cracker set off any where they will run with tail between their legs causing us more humiliation.

Even the few european cargo airlines that used to fly here pulled out, DHL comes in through its Middle East division.

Neutral Swiss left and recently mentioned security concerns as the issue.

European carriers served Iran throughout after Islamic revoluyion only leaving lately due to sanctions, even then Air France have been in and out of there, while Alitalia and Lufthansa remained constant.

We dont even get eastern European carriers, just had Interflug, Tarom and Aerflot the latter flew here when we hated them for invading Afghanistan, but left in the late 1990s when everything became ok, weird.

For Erbil I'm not sure, contacted foregin workers Kurdish expats returning and investing there, might have created traffic with lots of money making it worth the risk, besides Kurdistan region is relatively safe.

BA had F class demand and always flew three class 777 and 747, why would they drop to 787?

[lh658]

despite security issues during the 2000s Virgin, BMI and more recently Austrian were considering flying here.

Personally I hope no one returns and no new ones fly in because with one fire cracker set off any where they will run with tail between their legs causing us more humiliation.

Even the few european cargo airlines that used to fly here pulled out, DHL comes in through its Middle East division.

European carriers served Iran throughout after Islamic revoluyion only leaving lately due to sanctions, even then Air France have been in and out of there, while Alitalia and Lufthansa remained constant.

We dont even get eastern European carriers, just had Interflug, Tarom and Aerflot the latter flew her when we hated them for invading Afghanistan, but left in the late 1990s when everything became ok, weird.

For Erbil I'm not sure, contacted foregin workers Kurdish expats returning and investing there, might have created traffic with lots of money making it worth the risk, besides Kurdistan region is relatively safe.

I think Lufthansa cargo goes to Lahore. Erbil has mainly Oil gas workers at least and American contract workers. I feel like the Middle East carriers have monopoly in Pakistan due to region. Though countries like Nigeria, Chad, Niger, Ghana, Congo, and etc see European carriers they also suffer from extreme corruption as well as violence etc. Nigeria and Ghana makes sense due to cargo and energy business. Chad, Congo, and etc are all just ties due to former colonies and some business.

I believe Lufthansa and BA were last European carriers operating in Pakistan, and then before was Swiss Air, KLM, and Air France.

Though with Lufthansa Cityline they operate the a343 with 30 or so business class seats which are 2-2-2 vs EK 2-3-2. Then rest is premium eco and economy. They fly to Chennai, Philadelphia, Tampa, and some other cities. Also due to Pharmaceutical, textile, hopefully in near future auto industry with Renault and VW thinking of opening plants in PK; as well other European investments, growing IT sector in Lahore, and European diplomats. I feel like route can be success for Star Alliance as whole. If LH puts code share with United, Air Canada, and maybe another European carrier route will do well.

BA has 787 which is perfect seats 216 people no first class and the 787 does well on cargo. All aisle business class vs Emirates or QR. BA can slap on the AA code share get traffic within Europe as well as North America and Canada the route will do well. I believe Halliburton doing business in Pakistan good pick up corporate and diplomatic traffic.

Other advantage that BA and LH has is the extensive Canada and North America operation as well. Example San Francisco Bay area, Person traveling to Pakistan can go to SFO fly EK or EY. Or maybe he can choose BA which operates from SFO, SJC, and now OAK, same goes for LH.

If also PIA, Shaheen, Serene, and Air blue can work with the Euro carrier creating partnership to transfer pax domestically in Pakistan it will help as well.

I feel like European carriers coming back to Pakistan will be game changer, not just for airlines but, for the Pakistani airports.

[CoyBoy]

Yes region is the advantage ME carriers have no doubt, I also feel Pakistani's feel more secure travelling through Muslim countries and their mindset now favours ME3 and TK.

Euro carriers can come and change the game for a while but they will run when anything goes wrong, so totally unrelaible.

LH cargo left LHE some time in the past year operated by Aero Logic, their own service there ended much earlier.

[lh658]

Like I mentioned other airlines operate in other countries that have, there own situation. When there money no such thing as care come to play. If that was case LH, AF, VA, KL, UA, BA wouldn't fly to ACC, PHC, CCS, LOS, ABV, and etc where there are health issues and political instability. Well I flown LH to JED, and food has to be halal on the flights they cannot have pork items etc. Same goes for QF to DXB, I am sure the can accommodate Pakistan as well. Feel comfortable cause that's what available. India has variety carriers US carriers, Middle East, Asian, and Euro. If they can make it happen I believe Pakistan can make it successful too.

TK has now cut Pakistan operating just 737. I feel like with LH operating to Pakistan will murder TK business especially, LH has better Star Alliance relationship with other Star carriers, bigger aircraft and better product, and connectivity within Europe will be great such as LHR, DUB, CDG, AMS, MXP. and etc.

With Euro carriers returning will push the Pakistani airports to have more modernization and higher standards.

It was working for the guys before Musharraf left office clearly it can happen again.

[Hamad]

Concerning Erbil the point is LH operates with an A319 and just have a short stay of 55 Mins there.
Same Crew operates the Flight back to Germany so no need for the Crew to stay there.

LH Cityline its just a part of Lufthansa Group were Crew (especially Pilots) is employed under cheaper conditions (around 20% less) than Lufthansa itself.
So LH Cityline just operates Flight on behalf of Lufthansa (LH Code).

[lh658]

Concerning Erbil the point is LH operates with an A319 and just have a short stay of 55 Mins there.
Same Crew operates the Flight back to Germany so no need for the Crew to stay there.

LH Cityline its just a part of Lufthansa Group were Crew (especially Pilots) is employed under cheaper conditions (around 20% less) than Lufthansa itself.
So LH Cityline just operates Flight on behalf of Lufthansa (LH Code).

LH they can operate to Philadelphia and Chennai on city line, then they can do Lahore. Which Lahore did well for them, I see it again being good route this time with a343, than those old a300 that they operated with in 2007.

I believe with new future direct route would create more opportunity of growth.

What your opinion based on business in Pakistan etc? You think Karachi can be another successful route? LH tried it he failed within 6 months versus Lahore.

[lh658]

PIA operates to MXP, BCN, OSL, LHR, MAN, BHX, and I think FRA. If LH and BA have a greater network and partnerships I believe it can work for them and other future carriers.

[Pakistan-1]

Getting Asian Carriers like CX,SQ,MH and Air Asia to fly to Pakistan should also be a priority

[lh658]

Getting Asian Carriers like CX,SQ,MH and Air Asia to fly to Pakistan should also be a priority

That's a different thread, We are talking about European carriers.

[uzkt01]

I am just curious how are we going to GET them to fly here. Airline sector is a cut-throat bussiness. Those who take risks are more successful.

[lh658]

I am just curious how are we going to GET them to fly here. Airline sector is a cut-throat bussiness. Those who take risks are more successful.

I listed several factors above of how they can be successful in Pakistan. Rest depends on operating cost in Pakistan and how much money they will profit and rack out of Pakistan. They were here before, I am pretty sure if Marriott bombing didn't happen BA would still operate to ISB.

[lh658]

Rest will be up to marketing, corporate deals, and cargo.

[faisal-777]

despite security issues during the 2000s Virgin, BMI and more recently Austrian were considering flying here.

This is surprising to hear for me that Austrian considered flying here seriously? Austria is a small country, with population less than that of entire Karachi, their fleet is as big as PIA right now (must have been smaller that time). And there is not much traffic between Austria and Pakistan.