What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

[uzkt01]

PIA is operating A320's more than ATR's on domestic route. When there is no need accept ISB-KHI,LHE-KHI,ISB,LHE-UET. They are operating GIlgit and Skardu with a320 from ISB. So isn't there a need of aircrafts between A320 and ATR? Maybe AVRO Rj-100? What do you guys think? If A320 is replaced buy some aircraft then an a320 can operate to HongKong route and to IStanbul?

Avros are too old and are nearing retirement. CS100 is a best alternative followed by SSJ.

[hamzaafzal]

PIA is operating A320's more than ATR's on domestic route. When there is no need accept ISB-KHI,LHE-KHI,ISB,LHE-UET. They are operating GIlgit and Skardu with a320 from ISB. So isn't there a need of aircrafts between A320 and ATR? Maybe AVRO Rj-100? What do you guys think? If A320 is replaced buy some aircraft then an a320 can operate to HongKong route and to IStanbul?

Avros are too old and are nearing retirement. CS100 is a best alternative followed by SSJ.

Yes. Other Boeing and Airbus maybe Embrarer can be an option to try out. CS100 has impressive range too. Also can be flown to East or Europe.

http://commercialaircraft.bombardier.co ... ities.html

[uzairali]

PIA is operating A320's more than ATR's on domestic route. When there is no need accept ISB-KHI,LHE-KHI,ISB,LHE-UET. They are operating GIlgit and Skardu with a320 from ISB. So isn't there a need of aircrafts between A320 and ATR? Maybe AVRO Rj-100? What do you guys think? If A320 is replaced buy some aircraft then an a320 can operate to HongKong route and to IStanbul?

Avros are too old and are nearing retirement. CS100 is a best alternative followed by SSJ.

Yes. Other Boeing and Airbus maybe Embrarer can be an option to try out. CS100 has impressive range too. Also can be flown to East or Europe.

http://commercialaircraft.bombardier.co ... ities.html

CS is more range is for countries big like USA and Canada, where people rather do calgary to some city in 5 hours instead of flying a bigger plane half filled. People here have money to pay luxury of direct flight instead of connection. It's also good for PM nawaz, so he can fly in this instead of a320 bigger one, since he needs like 30 seats with long range than 158 seater. Cs100 more efficient than a320 for this.

But Pakistan is small and as such it makes sense to buy aircraft that has 2000-3000km range, since that plane will be more efficient. If Pakistan become wealth country (higher GDP per capita) then Pakistan could do like Islamabad to Istanbul on this aircraft (Turkish does on 737 anyways). They're selling them for half price for big orders due to struggle. If PIA can negotiate, it is a VERY good aircraft and PIA can fly cs300 in future to fill role of a319 (12+118=130 mix and a320 158 mix)

Embraer are nice, because they're cheap ($11 million less for same capacity, $61m).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100 russian airplane. 10-20 less seats, 3000km range and $27m list price. Perfect for skardu, gilgit. Like Lahore to gilgit, islamabad to gilgit. Sialkot to gilgit.

Japanese quality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Regional_Jet but expected delivery is 2018.

Chinese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_ARJ21 costs $30m (2015 dollars).

I think the Russian is best, as 355 orders and nearly 100 already flying. $27m is dirt cheap price. Yes it will not be as efficient as Japanese, but the price will make up for it. Fuel is cheap anyway.

Chinese is also good as maybe Pakistan can get chinese gov't to provide loans to have it. Many chinese banks have ordered it so they can lease it further. Same capacity as embrar (90-105) but $10m cheaper. Though these can have business seats, no one really cares for 1 hour flight. So can just increase pitch on front rows like on ATRs, if people pay extra, fine, but if all seats sold, let these seats be sold for economy fare in order to fill airplane. AIr canada does this on domestic routes with premium economy and economy. If people don't pay extra for bigger seats (or upgrade at the gate), they just fill the over sold economy passengers into premium economy.

[uzkt01]

CS100 can be used to routes around 4000km radius in comfort. This will allow PIA to serve cities in Central Asia, China, Bangladesh, Russia, Sri Lanka etc. It is not necessarily for domestic routes. Plus Bombardier is eagerly looking for new customers. It will be their first order in the region, which will most likely get a handsome discount, so list price of $61 mil wouldn't be issue. Also leasing options are always there.

[hamzaafzal]

I agree with you Uzair. PIA isn't having that good budget but russian plane would be good addition. But i think that these four five jets are similar. And anyone of these joins PIA, can't be bad. But chinese jets may be easy to get on lease. As you mentioned that we have really good relations with China.
And we shouldn't think of japanese right now. Embraer isn't in asian use and we may get some heavy discount on introduction in sub continent.
Also they are trust-worthy and have good feedback.

[yyzflyer]

it just seems that PIA, and/or Pakistani aviation in general, or even military, have had too much American built planes and still prefer them to everything else. Just look how PAF wants more F16's and PIA wants more Boeing aircrafts. So others, even airbus is not that much desired by the highups in PIA, they always go for Boeing for some reason eventhough it is most expensive option. Airbus may be cheaper if negotiated properly but we can't see that happening anytime soon. Even getting 5 x 777 or 787 is a big task taking forever and details not available about the deal, we still dunno what is the final decision/outcome/final plan. Too many rumours.

[uzairali]

it just seems that PIA, and/or Pakistani aviation in general, or even military, have had too much American built planes and still prefer them to everything else. Just look how PAF wants more F16's and PIA wants more Boeing aircrafts. So others, even airbus is not that much desired by the highups in PIA, they always go for Boeing for some reason eventhough it is most expensive option. Airbus may be cheaper if negotiated properly but we can't see that happening anytime soon. Even getting 5 x 777 or 787 is a big task taking forever and details not available about the deal, we still dunno what is the final decision/outcome/final plan. Too many rumours.

because exim bank by usa that help finanace such things

What PIA should do is order these russian/chinese/japanese/brazilians/canadian jets. They are VERY cheap and all struggling airlines are turning to these aircrafts.

The reason is these nations want to get a foothold in aviation, so they're offering huge discounts on aircrafts. The more aircraft out there, the more airlines will feel confident of buying more. For example, a319neo orders vs cs300 orders. Also boeing and airbus have duopoly, whereas these nations are offering new jets in its class and as such, there is greater competition.


Anyways, I hope PIA looks at chinese jets. Right now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_ARJ21 available for $30m (list price).
Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_C919 this can replace a320 in future. They will likely be cheap as well. PIA will be ordering a320neo, so if the price on c919 is good, it should place order now so it can start receving post 2019.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irkut_MC-21 this aircraft is russian and offer a319, a320 and a321 replacements. Just look how modern cockpit is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irkut_MC- ... tyukov.jpg The a320 replacement is VERY efficient, and costs only $35 million. Meanwhile airbus sells its a320 $100+ list price.

[Pakistan-1]

The only airline flying the ARJ21 is a subsidiary of Comac
China will need a long time to prove itself in the global aviation market

[hamzaafzal]

PIA has to choose the correct option at this moment. They should be considering their traffic to all areas ,future,present,past fleet and budget.
Boeing and Airbus are effecient but other like Russian,Japanese and Chinese are effecient too. But these may be give a better price for the features and discount too.

[uzairali]

PIA has to choose the correct option at this moment. They should be considering their traffic to all areas ,future,present,past fleet and budget.
Boeing and Airbus are effecient but other like Russian,Japanese and Chinese are effecient too. But these may be give a better price for the features and discount too.

Yes. It is like JF-17 fighter. Countries can buy F16 which has sold in thousands, but they buy jf-17 because it is new jet and the more countries buy it, the more it will sell. Hence jf-17 sells so cheap.

Also airbus and boeing are losing the market for narrow body jets. a318/b717 have disappeared. a319neo has only 58 orders, mainly from 2 customers, compared to over 1000 for a319.

PIA should think long ahead and place orders with russian/chinese etc. It is also worth noting that PIA has to sell planes after 20 years. With very few a319/b737-700 in the next 20 years, customers will not pay high price.

[uzairali]

The only airline flying the ARJ21 is a subsidiary of Comac
China will need a long time to prove itself in the global aviation market

It doesn't have to be chinese though. Embraer, bombadier are also well known. The point is, airbus and boeing are losing narrow body <150 seats. a318 is dead, a319neo and b737-max 7 has attracted very few orders, while embraer, bombadier are getting order in hundreds.

[hamzaafzal]

Yes it is not necessary that PIA should go for Chinese/Russian

[hamzaafzal]

What do you guys think about the fleet now? I think PIA have to make a big move now. PIA is suffering major loss after grounding the atr's. And only Boeing 777 and Airbus A320 and A330 are operational. PIA now have to make some moves now.

[khizer]

What do you guys think about the fleet now? I think PIA have to make a big move now. PIA is suffering major loss after grounding the atr's. And only Boeing 777 and Airbus A320 and A330 are operational. PIA now have to make some moves now.

PIA should go for A319's. It may become a replacement for A310's. 767's are also good if PIA lease a few 4 or 5.

[hamzaafzal]

Yesss A319 are good tho but CRJ's should also be considered. They can fly to europe easily. And PIA may get discount for the introduction in the region as Embrarer is nowhere here.