What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

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hamzaafzal
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What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by hamzaafzal »

So as we all know that 787 are on the way but PIA should also focus on their smaller fleet. 11 a320 are active right now. But they are not able to fill the demand. We can take Istanbul and Tokyo as an example. As far I know there are no flights to Istanbul from Pakistan for PIA. Istanbul does create a huge traffic from Pakistan but that all traffic goes to the ME airlines. But Codeshare..?? PIA should no more rely on codeshares. Tokyo had the same thing. But I think if PIA plans to buy 4-5 partially used 737 they can be used for the former east and west destinations. 737 can fill up the lack. Bangkok and Hong Kong maybe?
*i had plenty of time to waste*
What are your thoughts?
Pakistan-1
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Re: What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by Pakistan-1 »

If done right PIA is able to do Daily flights to Hong Kong and Beijing. As CPEC comes in full force more and more people will fly to china and as Hong Kong and Beijing are best to airports in the region many people will prefer to fly there and get an onward connection
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faisal-777
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Re: What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by faisal-777 »

I think it would be as follows:


777/787: Serving North America/Canada/Key European destinations (Milan, Barcelona, Frankfurt etc)
A320 family: Medium haul flights like Dubai, Doha, Muscat etc and local routes with high load (ISB-KHI, LHE-KHI)
ATR42/72: Regional flights like ISB-MUX etc

Once new ISB airport is active, it can be used as hub for connecting east and west, if you have enough airplanes.

I am not sure why does it appear wiser to get A320 family aircraft than newer versions of 737, as PIA has decades of expertise and relationship with Boeing. From business case, maybe it makes sense to have fleet belonging to one manufacturer, but at the same time, it is good to have multiple manufacturers, to negotiate better deals regarding maintenance, parts etc and from perspective of fleet planning.
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Vaqar Khan
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Re: What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by Vaqar Khan »

faisal-777 wrote:I think it would be as follows:

I am not sure why does it appear wiser to get A320 family aircraft than newer versions of 737, as PIA has decades of expertise and relationship with Boeing. From business case, maybe it makes sense to have fleet belonging to one manufacturer, but at the same time, it is good to have multiple manufacturers, to negotiate better deals regarding maintenance, parts etc and from perspective of fleet planning.
PIA also has a sustantially long relationship with Airbus, with the Airbus 300 and 310 aircraft.
uzairali
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Re: What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by uzairali »

Vaqar Khan wrote:
faisal-777 wrote:I think it would be as follows:

I am not sure why does it appear wiser to get A320 family aircraft than newer versions of 737, as PIA has decades of expertise and relationship with Boeing. From business case, maybe it makes sense to have fleet belonging to one manufacturer, but at the same time, it is good to have multiple manufacturers, to negotiate better deals regarding maintenance, parts etc and from perspective of fleet planning.
PIA also has a sustantially long relationship with Airbus, with the Airbus 300 and 310 aircraft.

Except in this case the aircraft were leased based on lowest $ instead of purchasing directly from boeing or airbus.

I believe the lease rates for a320s are cheaper thats why all airlines almost in pakistan use it. Also PIA planned to use a330s but because of the 5 777w order, they had to convert it to b787. Otherwise they likely would've leased a330s.
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Re: What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by Amaad Lone »

Maybe we should have a top "what will be the future of PIA".

In a country that has 25 million children out of schools. Where hospitals do not have ventilators and the government borrows 3 billion rupees a day to sustain itself you really think its a good idea to have a public sector company that loses 300 million dollars a year.

For what for supporting 15,000 jobs.

If PIA could not turn itself around with 40 dollar oil and a newer fleet then it should shut down.

It will not be the first flag carrier to shut down.

SABENA, VARIG were two large carriers that shut down, maybe its about time so does PIA.
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pkjet
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Re: What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by pkjet »

Jumma Mubarak Everyone.
I recall many years ago when I suggested that PIA be closed down completely ( and restarted) a certain someone tore me to shreds on this very forum.
Funny how some people pushing their own agenda,put others down and reign supreme( they think).
You can't be all things to all people...so just be nice !
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Re: What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by Pakistan-1 »

Amaad Lone wrote:
SABENA, VARIG were two large carriers that shut down, maybe its about time so does PIA.
Also Swissair Pan Am and CAAC
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Re: What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by Pakistan-1 »

Amaad Lone wrote:
SABENA, VARIG were two large carriers that shut down, maybe its about time so does PIA.
Also Swissair Pan Am and CAAC
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hamzaafzal
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Re: What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by hamzaafzal »

Listen guys. Swiss Air, Austrian and PIA have the same condition. Swiss has just inducted their first ever 777's in their fleets. They were operating with A340's which are more than 13 years old. Their a319 are still in use.
All the details about swiss fleet here: https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Swiss
We are InshaAllah going to induct 787's soon which will give a push start to PIA. PIA will be on its way to development.
Austrian just have 5 777's and 6 767's and they are also in the same condition as PIA and Swiss are. Coming to the topic PIA should first improve their shorter fleet after induction of 787 like bringing in A320's or even A310's will be enough. But later should A340 be inducted? I heard that PIA is getting a huge amount of discount from boeing and I think PIA should get some out of that. Maybe a single 747? As there were rumors about shutting down the production of 747?
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Re: What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by CoyBoy »

CAAC dosent figure, they were disbanded to form five or six other STATE OWNED airlines, it didnt fail like the others.

Pan Am was never state owned anywhere in its history.
uzairali
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Re: What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by uzairali »

hamzaafzal wrote:Listen guys. Swiss Air, Austrian and PIA have the same condition. Swiss has just inducted their first ever 777's in their fleets. They were operating with A340's which are more than 13 years old. Their a319 are still in use.
All the details about swiss fleet here: https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Swiss
We are InshaAllah going to induct 787's soon which will give a push start to PIA. PIA will be on its way to development.
Austrian just have 5 777's and 6 767's and they are also in the same condition as PIA and Swiss are. Coming to the topic PIA should first improve their shorter fleet after induction of 787 like bringing in A320's or even A310's will be enough. But later should A340 be inducted? I heard that PIA is getting a huge amount of discount from boeing and I think PIA should get some out of that. Maybe a single 747? As there were rumors about shutting down the production of 747?
It's not the issue of having planes, the airline simply does not know how to run! It needs a shake up from top down. All it does is pay fat commission to ticket sellers to make people buy PIA. But no effort is made to improve its website or marketing.

As someone said, price of oil is $40 and PIA has efficient planes (b733 to a320 is huge improvement), yet the airline still doesn't know how to make profit.

For example, take this nonsense move to induct a333 plane to replace a310. A 300 seater plane replacing 200~ seater, when PIA already flys b772 with 310-330 seats. Then it plans to fly both a333 and b788 and b772 at the same time.

Some people say there is leasing plane is hard. I disagree because if you give good money, you will get good plane. Problem PIA is, they wet lease plane because they can't find a good dry lease plane, the outcome is same cost. Why not dry lease from start? Many international leasing companies get a330 and b787 planes from boeing and airbus to lease out. They can easily induct a321 and a319, but everyday they float new tenders.

There was offer for nearly brand new b773 from kenya, but PIA was slow and now KLM lease it. PIA does not want to pay international price for planes and hence it keeps losing out by "Wet leasing" airplanes in search of a good deal on dry lease. Even when it gets good dry lease plane it signs up for, then they change mind (hint: 2 a320 and 2 b772 still not part of PIA).


Why is it that Shaheen and airblue are able to acquire a319, a332 and a321 but PIA cannot (ceo says "its impossible to get one a321" like seriously)? Why is it that a333 lease of UL will cost PIA $100 million loss but when shaheen or airblue lease plane they grow bigger and more profitable?

Our b772LR flys 310 passengers sometime regional route while international airlines put 400 passengers on it and for only international flights.
We induct ATR 72 and then it cannot fly to skardu/gilgit and we fly big a320 there, instead of small CRJ jet planes or cs100 100 seaters. Also LHE to KHI is flown by a320 instead of completely by ATRs or small jets.
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Adnan Anwar
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Re: What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by Adnan Anwar »

Amaad Lone wrote:Maybe we should have a top "what will be the future of PIA".

In a country that has 25 million children out of schools. Where hospitals do not have ventilators and the government borrows 3 billion rupees a day to sustain itself you really think its a good idea to have a public sector company that loses 300 million dollars a year.

For what for supporting 15,000 jobs.

If PIA could not turn itself around with 40 dollar oil and a newer fleet then it should shut down.

It will not be the first flag carrier to shut down.

SABENA, VARIG were two large carriers that shut down, maybe its about time so does PIA.
On top we keep voting for the wrong people, as if we are slaves.
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hamzaafzal
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Re: What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by hamzaafzal »

PIA is operating A320's more than ATR's on domestic route. When there is no need accept ISB-KHI,LHE-KHI,ISB,LHE-UET. They are operating GIlgit and Skardu with a320 from ISB. So isn't there a need of aircrafts between A320 and ATR? Maybe AVRO Rj-100? What do you guys think? If A320 is replaced buy some aircraft then an a320 can operate to HongKong route and to IStanbul?
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Re: What will be the Future fleet of PIA?

Post by raihans »

hamzaafzal wrote:They are operating GIlgit and Skardu with a320 from ISB.
Gilgit is being operated by ATR only, though Skardu is being operated with ATR/A320
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